2y ago

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on

www.cnn.com

How EVs became such a massive disappointment | CNN Business

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on::Tesla has been slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids, arguably a step back from EVs.

[Dormant] Electric Vehicles (Moved to !electricvehicles@slrpnk.net) @lemmy.world

MicroWave @lemmy.world

2y ago

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on

www.cnn.com /2024/02/25/cars/what-happened-with-electric-vehicle-sales-in-2023/index.html

News @lemmy.world

SeaJ @lemm.ee

2y ago

No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on

www.cnn.com /2024/02/25/cars/what-happened-with-electric-vehicle-sales-in-2023/index.html

75 comments

I'm in the market for a BEV. Have been for 3 years. The reason I don't have one is:
A. The cars that are large enough for my use case (weekend getaways with kids and or friends) are all super expensive luxury vehicles with poor ratings.
B. Availability. Other than the Mustang Mach-E, nothing is available here (Canada) without a minimum 6 month wait list. (Ioniq 5 is 1 year).
C. Poor reliability and/or features. (See the disaster that is the Chevy Blazer EV).
At this point I'm waiting for the Ioniq 7. Hopefully it will be as well reviewed as it's sister the EV9.
The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they're selling. But they're framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.
The media and those apposed to EVs are buying it of course.
- Is it so much to ask that I be able to get a vehicle that's just...normal but also an EV? Not a monster truck, not some space ship looking thing, just like a Honda Accord but an EV...I don't think that's asking so much but apparently automakers disagree.
  
  It goes hand in hand with the prices. If you're going to spend that much more on a BEV, you want it to be different. And making it look different doesn't cost significantly more.
  Also, car shape and style has so much to do with ICE vehicle design necessity.
  
  The Hyundai Ioniq was like that, sadly they discontinued it
  
  I got a Peugeot 208. It's small, and ok in all aspects except the software. Typical bad car UI. It works with cabled Android Auto, so for long drives that's more than fine. But touch screen is still old, and the app/site hasn't let me log in for a few weeks now... So I can't remote start heating.
  But it's a great car that I bought used, for driving to and from work. Looks good, yellow color, parking sensors and rear camera for my blind ass. But is also probably not available in America for all I know, I live in Europe.
- I'm considering to get a Polestar 2 for many reasons but also because... No waiting time 😉
  
  Oh yeah, forgot that one. Way too small for me, but a really nice car. If the Polestar 3 wasn't so stupid expensive, I'd love to get that.
  
  I got a lyric and I love ot
- I still find it super weird. A (remote) coworker bought an ioniq 5 after 9 months on a wait list... 3 months later, I went to a dealership. they had one on the lot (3 actually). Was able to get one with 0 wait.
  Looking at their website, they have 4 2024 ioniq 5s available right now, an SEL, SE, and 2x Limited.
  So apparently my local dealership is the sweet spot. Or is this purely a Canada vs US thing?
  
  Yes, availability in the US is much better. You can find a base ioniq 5 here easily now, but nobody wants those. Everyone wants the long range AWD.
- The reason GM and Ford are not selling well is because nobody wants what they’re selling. But they’re framing it as an general EV issue and not a crap product issue.
  Its GM, Ford, Rivian, Lucid.
  Tesla only managed to get close to their targets by dropping prices dramatically.
  
  Rivian and Lucid are exclusively luxury brands. Not shocked that they're having a hard time pushing cars over 100k CAD. I don't think they're atracting the same media attention either.
- Yeah, I want a Mach-E (at least in theory) ... but I want it to have a good 500-600 mile range (or for the charging network to be much bigger than it is)... It's unfortunate really
  
  Is the charging network that bad in the US that you need to get that far without charging?
  
  The charging network actually is about to get much bigger, as Ford will be able to use tesla superchargers starting sometime within next few months. (and is providing a free adapter to owners). I've had my Mach e for 6 months and couldn't be happier with it.
  
  I test drove the mach-e and really liked it. And it has a surprisingly large amount of storage due to the well designed frunk. The California edition has more than enough range for me. However, the abysmal charging speed has me worried about battery condition. If it's that slow to charge it means the battery isn't good under load.
Auto makers "slashing prices." With perhaps one or 2 small exceptions, can you actually go out and buy an EV for under 40K in the US? Didn't think so. Seems to be a whole lotta confusion about "demand" and the manufacturers actually making an electric car that normal people can afford.
My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven't purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn't been made in a plug in variety yet.
Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.
Just make a dumb battery on wheels, already.
- This is a concern for me also. Tesla is the Apple of car companies: hipster-centric, proprietary everything, overpriced, and really bad from a privacy perspective.
  I was looking at Toyotas as I hear they are reliable and have PHEV and other options, but supposedly their data privacy is also extremely poor.
  I don't need a lot of the "smart" features of modern cars. I don't need my car phoning the mother ship with it's precise location and other metadata every 3/5 of a second.
  I only want a rock solid drive train, basic usable control interface, a radio and maybe a USB port to play my own MP3s. Don't need apps or even navigation. I feel like most EVs are very centered on bell and whistle features and their cost is greatly inflated because of it.
  
  Personally, I'm keen to see if the proverbial doors get blown off the first few gens of electric cars, and the FOSS community makes headway.
  I would happily buy an old Leaf if I knew we could handle all the software ourselves, and just do battery swaps when the range wasn't enough any more.
- Super just curious, what kind of form factor are you looking for? Any upcoming releases that match it?
I see people on TikTok a lot saying that 'the EV bubble is gonna pop and all these suckers are gonna come crawling back to traditional combustion cars'
Like no. Batteries right now are the worse they will ever be again. This is the worst battery tech is gonna be for the rest of our lives. Theres already EVs with batteries that last a week, of just day to day commuter type travel. And have warranties up to 1,000,000 miles.
What's happening right now is a big shakeup because lots of people can only afford to buy these cars second hand, but people have anxiety about trusting a second hand car with this new tech. So used car sales people are bitching that it's hard to sell them. That doesn't mean they aren't selling though. On top of that, the transition of combustion engines to batteries is causing an industry shakeup. Like there was when we went from horses to cars. When cars first became a thing, people complained about where they will get fuel for it and how long the engine lasts.
Now 100 years on, we are complaining about where we will charge these things, and how long the batteries last.
The transition to EVs is inevitable. You can say it's not happening but you are wrong.
- I own an EV. Whats to 'crawl back to'? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?
  Nah, bruh. Im good. I will never go back to ICE.
  
  I have a terrible EV. Claims it has 80 miles of range but is really around 50 miles. A drive to work brings it down to 20%. The fast charge port is CHAdeMO, which at least around here is barely used, and even the electrify America places usually only have 1.
  I still don't want to switch back, I just want a better one with a more common port. I work from home except for the occasional mandatory in office stuff (one coming this Thurs and probably another next month). Most of the stuff I want to drive to is within a battery's distance to go to and from. About the only thing that really sucks is vacations to visit family.
  
  I was able to get a charger installed ….. it was so easy to get used to treating it like phone charging: plugin at night and it is always ready to go. I am done with gas stations, and hope I never need to go “crawling back” to them
  
  I just bought my first EV. I'm never going back to ICE. Effortless acceleration, a super quiet drive, being able to plug in at home and always leave the house with 100% capacity... People try to argue that they're bad because of something they remember seeing once a couple of decades ago or whatever. It's nice correcting them based on personal experience. Also if they go for a test drive they change their minds REALLY quickly. That EV power off the line is a pretty compelling argument all on its own.
  Reminds me a lot of the battery versus petrol RC car debate back in the day. Anyone who remembered NiCad batteries and brush motors had a justifiable hate for electric RC cars and opted for the petrol option... But if they refused to try LiPo and brushless they ended up stuck with noisy, finicky, and ultimately slower cars.
  You gotta be willing to accept that as technology improves the balance can (and rapidly does) swing in favour of something that you remember sucking.
Gen 2 chevy volt owner here, PHEVs are absolutely not a step back. If I didn't buy the volt, the one car our family could afford would have been an ICE car. IMO, these things help bridge idealism with current reality - for most of my day-to-day, I drive a fully electric car. I just also get the option to toss some gas into it when on a long road trip.
- Probably the best bet right now. Both from a cost perspective and using resources better. One big battery in a single car vs 10 batteries in 10 PHEV. If we want to make a real impact right now the PHEV are a great choice and can reach more people. Then of course, the best is not drive any car at all, asvoften as possible. Taking public transport or walking/cycling is much better than than any BEV, imagine if every car owner would drive 10% less, that would make a huge impact. Much larger than building a fuck ton of BEVs from a sustainability standpoint.
- Yeah, this. For people with short commutes and in the market for a compact I strongly recommend the Prius Prime. Having a vehicle that can get to work and back without using gas at all, but also can go on long road trips without range anxiety? Perfect. And as an entry-level into the plug-in world, it's nice that I can charge it on regular 110 instead of having to think about an upgrade to an oven-port.
General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids
GREAT! Ditching PHEV's was a stupid idea, we don't have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV's moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV's work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you're on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.
Have y'all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it's FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.
- Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can't charge at home.
  
  They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.
  Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.
- PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
  The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.
  With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
  
  No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.
  If you're doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.
  
  IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.
  Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.
  
  At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.
  A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.
  PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
  I'd argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren't all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.
  With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
  I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don't seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.
  Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel's Ampera-E uses, since it's basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.
  The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don't see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.
  
  It's still more viable in regions where people don't have personal garages, and their apartment parking lot doesn't support retrofitting charging stands.
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  Have y'all seen the new Prius Prime?
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
And now the EPA is considering slowing down requirements for automakers to sell more electric vehicles, dialing back what had been aggressive plans to move away from gas powered cars and SUVs.
Industry experts cite a number of reasons for this, including vehicle price, lack of charging capacity and confusing tax credit rules.
Besides being too expensive for the average buyer, selection is limited in terms of body style, said Corey Cantor, an industry analyst with Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
This is why Ford recently cut prices for the Mach-E SUV and why Farley created a team to work on a less expensive EV engineering platform that will be the basis for future models.
BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, and Stellantis have come together to create a joint venture that plans to install about 30,000 chargers across the United States and Canada.
In the words of the Portuguese auto executive, who spoke to journalists in New York recently, public EV charging needs to “jump on your face” before most customers will consider an electric vehicle.
The original article contains 1,022 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 83%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Hertz is also selling a lot of its rental Teslas, which is probably cutting into the new car sales.
😱NO! Its all just a lie....keep buying EVs.

75 comments