Zelenskiy accuses Nato of lack of respect over Ukraine membership
Zelenskiy accuses Nato of lack of respect over Ukraine membership
www.theguardian.com
Zelenskiy accuses Nato of lack of respect over Ukraine membership
45 comments
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Honestly, I have to side with what Biden said on this issue a couple days ago. Ukraine can't join until the war is concluded, regardless of the outcome., Allowing them to join NATO right now would obligate all member states to escalate the conflict with Russia because all of NATO must defend all member states. That would be a dangerous precedent, as it would essentially be an implicit declaration of war by NATO against Russia and prove Putin's propaganda blustering true, giving him even more diplomatic ammunition to attack the legitimacy of NATO, and accuse NATO of being an offense organization rather than an defense organization.
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I don't think anyone was expecting a vote to ratify Ukraine today, just a solid plan with a timeline. Everyone agrees Ukraine should join when the war ends, what is "the end" of the war; when Russia leaves, or after Russia stops launching attacks from its borders? What steps will Ukraine need to take at that point that it hasn't already? How long will the process take? Is it more like Finland, more like Sweden, or more like...2014? I think those were the details Zelenskyy was looking for, and while Stoltenberg says one thing, Biden and Scholz say another, Sunak's talking out of both corners of his mouth, the Baltics want Ukraine on their flank ASAP, Western Europe doesn't want to provoke Putin still (I think China is running a lot of interference on their behalf diplomatically).
Ukraine is okay not receiving an invitation to join today, but they at least want a Save the Date and NATO can't agree on a wedding date yet.
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Because, using your analogy, the “court case” from the divorce of the previous marriage hasn’t been concluded yet.
There’s literally no upside to NATO giving a timetable besides “when the war is concluded” because nothing can be done until then anyway.
What kind of other timetable would you suggest?
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Not even giving ukraine a roadmap or a solid timeline is absolutely disgraceful and just shows where NATO’s priorities lie.
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NATO should escalate the conflict
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Should they, though? You do realize that results in the entirety of Europe being pitted against Putin's Russia, who is still a nuclear power run by a despot despite their decaying conventional military. The potential mobilization could begin to snowball very, very rapidly. Russia also still has the BRICS alliance behind them to feed them resources, although the cohesiveness of their pacts has yet to be tested. It could turn into a horrifying bloody mess ten times the scale of Ukraine overnight.
NATO actively escalating the situation also plays into Putin's propaganda machine. He has long painted NATO as the aggressor, as NATO being the one who encroached upon Russia's borders. It's effective to drum up nationalistic sentiment. Proving him right would galvanize Russia's population, increase his support, and only further cement his slowly-crumbling political power both domestically and internationally.
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I agree. Weakness in 2014 led to the full scale invasion. Now, we are showing it again. Putin is trying to drag this out till the US 2024 election hoping trump or another friendly R gets in power and stops the support. Why are we doing this now...? I suppose the US is playing the "we don't want a war" card and trying to balance between support and not wanting direct conflict but Zelensky is right on this one.
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Its just what is expected from Zelensky. He knows Nato's constitution forbids allying with a warfaring nation, but the news and headlines brings more support to ukraine. As it should IMO
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I wonder if part of the reticence to give Ukraine a firm commitment for joining NATO is they expect it to be a negotiating chip with Russia in future peace talks. Pausing Ukraine's NATO membership bid might be the way to give Russia an out without territory concessions...
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The Euromaidan demonstrations started because Russian planted president (Yanukovich, the one that run to Russia and got their citizenship) first promised that he won't stand on the way of Ukraine entering EU, then when he was in power he reversed that and said that Ukraine will align with Russia. This is what created the upset.
At that time Ukraine wasn't interested in joining NATO, the population support was single digit. After 2014 invasion the NATO support drastically increased. BTW: the invasion of Crimea started when Yanukovich was still the president, showing that this was planned no matter what.
And please stop with the BS of "NATO invite provoking Russia", everyone knows, including putin, that NATO is a defensive alliance, and (as you also pointed out) unlike Russia it doesn't conquer countries forcing them to join, the countries want to join themselves and seek to be invited. NATO is not a threat to Russia sovereignty. NATO is a threat to Russia's imperialism, because allows those smaller countries to not be afraid of being invaded. This is why Poland and Baltic states joined EU and NATO on speed run when they got the opportunity. This is what Ukraine wants to do the same.
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Refrain from speaking on that which you know nothing
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NATO*
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I was wondering the same, does not apply to UK journalism style apparently
Use all capitals if an abbreviation is pronounced as the individual letters (an initialism): BBC, CEO, US, VAT, etc; if it is an acronym (pronounced as a word) spell out with initial capital, eg Nasa, Nato, Unicef
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Interesting, thanks for sharing.
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45 comments
Clickbaity headline.
Yeah, I read another article by different news and there was also comment that another (unnamed) "representative from Central Europe" said that Ukraine went over the line with this.
Why can't they just straight say that it was a representative from Hungary?
It’s not though - is it?
Literally the first line of the article expands on it:
That's also a pretty vague take. The article phrases it weirdly too. The actual quote is far less adversarial.
Saying "Ukraine deserves respect" is not an accusation, the clickbaity article is just continuing on from the clickbaity headline
Giving a timeline would just give Putin a timeline to work to