It’s all posturing

I’ll tell you a secret you might have missed.

It’s not about the privacy.

It’s about a foreign country of similar power levels having the ability to shape your people’s political opinions.

They’re shitting themselves because it’s one of the first times it’s happened to them instead of them doing it to someone else.

It’s about a foreign country of similar power levels having the ability to shape your people’s political opinions.
I think it's more about the US empire losing its ability to control some people.
- Nah. They haven’t lost shit.
  They’re just bricking it over turnabout being FairPlay for once.
I feel like the American media is out of control and is no longer a tool of the people, but a fire hose of the wealthy, disseminating whatever will help them keep their power.
They have convinced the people that news makes you intelligent, when really the lack of new ideas and differing viewpoints creates a closed feedback loop so they just regurgitate whatever they hear with absolute confidence, but if you ask them a question it all falls apart.
Fox, CNN, New York Times, NPR, it's all owned or supported in such a way that they dare not bite the hand that feeds it.
So I, for one, am open to hearing what foreign countries have to say.
- No matter what your source of information is, you always have to be mindful and take information in context, and be sure to validate unproven claims. There's a thousand interests competing for your attention and loyalty, and a lot of it is driven through fear and uncertainty.
  Any fearmongering about China makes me uncomfortable, as it should every rational thinking person. Just like fearmongering against everyone should be viewed with suspicion.
  Be careful out there, everyone. It's a wild jungle.

new user freshly connected to internet, would you rather:

-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in usa, or

-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in china

Why not spend your time on a Japanese platform? We got anime ~
- Japanese sites have web ui designs that are pretty bad. Argue way worse than having to use the official reddit app ad wise.
Is wasting my precious time and attention on an anticapitalist hellscape headquartered on distributed servers around the world an option?
- as long as it lasts
I would pick whatever entertains me the most.

The key difference is that American Government agencies don't have access to the information TikTok steals from its users.

Edit: This comment implied the US has easy access to the data from companies like Facebook.

This is naive. America has all the laws they need to get data from private companies, just the same as China
- And thanks to Snowden revelations we know for a fact that US companies work directly with US government and share all their user data.
- Sure, but there's a difference between having the potential to do something, and actively doing it. I'm aware the FBI/CIA can get my data from Google if they want it, but something would have to trigger them into wanting to investigate me. With a Chinese company there is no "if", all of the data goes straight to the CCP. Tencent, the bloated multimedia company, even had a moment of ironic hypocrisy where they didn't want to give away all of their users' data.
At least in theory they have to get a warrant, although there are plenty of examples of tech companies handing over information without one. They definitely have access to all the same information if they really want it though.
Edit: In hindsight I think I may have misinterpreted how that post was intended. American government agencies do have a harder time getting access to TikTok's information, although at least for US users TikTok has separate servers that make it possible for them to do so.
- They have to get a warrant to demand it, yes. But if they show up with a bag full of money, the companies will just turn it right over.
Exactly this
This is what people miss. Furthermore, it's reasonable not to want an enemy state to have access to information relating to a country's citizens. Yes, the US has done. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. That's why they're worried about it. They know how badly that information can be used.
Furthermore, it is clear the Chinese government has an influence over app contents. It is easy for them to use it to shape the opinions of their userbase depending on the country.

Ya, but when America is in control it's okay. /s
This is implicitly an argument that Tik Tok should be banned.
Sure, but they at least pretend to care. When Google steals my data, they pretend to not have it. When China has my data, literally anybody can have my data.

True but also true: you are comparing multinational corporations to the Chinese government, who is currently waging cold war against Western states. That's the quiet part they're taking care not to say loud, hence posturing.

Of course, why else would China build their country so close to all those US military bases. Such agression
- I shouldn't defend myself from China because the USA built bases, is that your argument?
- whatabout
- In the south China sea lol
- Canada isn't so big that it's statistically unlikely I don't know someone China "touched" and is still "touching" today. More than 5% of Canadians are Chinese. With Chinese police actions being documented to be carried out within 100km of me and quite likely within my own city, it's starting to get pretty fucking personal for everyone over here.

Americans when Canadians say they'd prefer TikTok spying vs an American company:

but seriously. I want no one to have my data, but if someone HAD to have it, I would prefer TikTok over anything from Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, etc..

My country wont export me to China if I post something negative or pirate something. My country will export me to the US if they come banging on my door. I am quite literally safer letting China have a bit of my data.

This is the worst take I've ever heard. The concerns are "capitalist targeted advertising" vs "a foreign power abusing American user data to target and push agendas on it's people".
Is lemmygrad leaking??
- I'm not a lemmygrad user. I'm simply stating facts?
  There's literally many recent news articles of Canadians getting in legal trouble from American companies because of the things they posted or things they downloaded.
  The Canadian government isn't handing me over to China or allowing China to come get me.
  My comment is not even pro China. I'm just saying that nothing I say or do will allow China to put me in jail. Can't say the same about America.
  You should learn to read. I would prefer no one get my data, but it's statistically safer for me for China to get it over an American company. However, no one should get it. Fuck shit American companies, fuck shit Chinese companies.
- Are you seriously implying the 'murican government wouldn't get easy access to whatever data an US company has on you?
China literally holds our citizens hostage to attempt to force us to permit their espionage. Openly operates police depots on Canadian territory to terrorize people here. It's not the fucking same.
- I'm not talking about that. Please stay on topic. My simple statement is true, and doesn't mean that I love China. I don't. You'll never catch me ever talking positive about China or ever stepping foot in China.
Don't worry the illegally operating Chinese police station in your city will just come and get you. No need to be exported, you get to be questioned and held by a foreign officer without any direct oversight in your own country!
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/there-may-be-more-chinese-police-stations-canada-minister-says-2023-05-14/
- The point
  your head
I am pretty sure TikTok would comply if you posted something illegal under Canada law or US law. Sure they aren't based in the US but that doesn't mean they don't operate within the US and can just ignore the US laws. I assume they also have operations within Canada as well.

Has everyone forgotten when Zuck was brought before congress and grilled about Facebook? True, the reps merely embarrassed themselves through their own ignorance, but being ineffectual is not the same as hypocracy.

Lol yeah politicians haven't exactly been abstaining from grandstanding about domestic social media giants.

i'd rather be spied on by an allied country, or my own, than a somewhat hostile country.

I’d rather just not be spied on lol
- Real shit, right here
- You’re right and me neither, and as much as I don’t want my home address to be public, I’m sure there are people it would be WORSE to have know it than others. US companies acting how they do is unacceptable, but they can at least (if they have scruples) say fuck off to the government assuming we aren’t living in a truly renegade government. The meme here is correct and I think we should hold companies to a higher standard, but acting like every government is equal or the CCP isn’t immediately scarier than the US government doesn’t seem helpful to me.
  I love Chinese people, I love their culture, I grew up there, I do not love their government.
- same, but people usually say the shit you just memed about to justify tiktok's spying. no one here is arguing for meta and co, the fediverse is actively against them, so why aren't we also allowed to be against tiktok?
I'd rather be spied on by a far away country than by one with armed bastards on my street
If you're being honest to yourself, when your own country is spying on you it might have a bigger impact on you than a country you might visit for a week or never.
....why?
I'd rather not be spied on.

We should be saying both are bad. We need much stronger, EU like privacy laws.
- And how would privacy laws be applied to TikTok, which is outside the jurisdiction of these laws?
  The only way to get TikTok to have any privacy policies at all is by threatening to block them.
  Which is what's happening.
I think that is generally the point?
Often Americans point to china as big bad for shit America is actively doing as well, while pretending America is so great. They both fucking suck. They both want to be the major super power and to do so they both do horrible shit to their own people, people in other countries, entire other countries, both extremely capitalistic, etc.
Not on the mass media.
politicians are actively talking about banning tiktok. let me know when they do the same for twitter, instagram, reddit, facebook, tinder, youtube, google, amazon, and every other US site that does the exact same snooping that tiktok does. THEN we can say “both are bad”.

Both are bad.

But only one is a national security threat.
- Depends on the perspective
- Is it the one that radicalizes people into white supremacist terrorism?

It's like picking on a younger sibling.

It's okay when you, the older sibling, do it. But when a stranger does it, you kick their ass.

Xenophobia (from Ancient Greek ξένος (xénos) 'strange, foreign, alien', and φόβος (phóbos) 'fear') is the fear or dislike of anything which is perceived as being foreign or strange.

The same fearmongering would've happened to American social media apps if it wasn't for that sweet sweet data the US government is able to get.

I remember articles in the early 00s about how China wouldn't allow Google to operate there and a big deal was made about "the great firewall of China" and how it was all about censorship, but now that China has an influential internet service, US congress is demanding they hand over ownership of US operations to a US company.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Now do American politicians when an elementary school is attacked by a gunman.

There’d be nothing for the top box.
- When a trans person is on a beer can:
  When an elementary school is shot up for the 5th time this week by a gunman:

its almost like foreign governments collecting information about your population is a bad thing for your people and your government, or something.

It's worse for the US to have my data as a Canadian than China. America can come for me, and my country would hand me over. China can't do shit to me.
- America would lose all standing in global politics and the global economy if they invaded Canada without very strong reason. If the US started a war with China tomorrow, half the world, Canada included, would either do nothing or join them.

Do other people who defend China even use or like TikTok? I sure don't, I have never used TikTok as an argument for China.

To be fair, they haven't exactly stepped in where the activities of Chinese applications are concerned. They just keep threatening to do so.

See Montana

So many people here who don't understand why people are able to criticize more than one country be like:

A: "Tell me the difference between these pictures:" || xor

B: "They are the same"

@Veedems If our freedom we wanna keep. Facebook, Microsoft, BP, Nestlé, and Google we have to kill.

God I was hoping the Tankys wouldn't run here full speed after reddit shut down, but looks like that ship already sailed.

Certainly hope you’re not getting the impression that I’m speaking in favor of China. I’m more in favor of equal outrage over invasions of privacy from all parties, foreign and domestic.
- Whataboutism is a classic way to invalidate an argument without having to disagree with it directly. You're engaging in that purposefully or not. If you really agree that both are bad why would people shitting on TikTok upset you at all?
This just in, American realises no one outside of America actually likes America!
You think you're all that and a bag of chips, but quite frankly the rest of the world is laughing at you and doesn't want anything to do with you.
When you're faced with that, you call everyone a "tankie". Almost like people can hate both America and China. Both countries are dog shit.
- Here, take my Lemmy gold kind stranger 🪙
- That's a vast generalization as well. I've met plenty of people outside the US that like it
You should probably check your shit before replying - Lemmy was created and has been maintained by VERY left leaning people.
- ooh I get to block another tanky

Privacy rights are only a suggestion nowadays. It's pretty sad.

Stay for the anime, cum for the hentai.

Same here with india

American politicians don't need social media to invade peoples privacy. The patriot act sealed the deal a while ago. If they want to spy, they're going to.

I should also add that the whole tik tok ban is just a way to toss in extra laws that give the America government more control. They say it's about tik tok, but it's a scapegoat to get people to vote for invasive laws.