TIL about Marianne Bachmeier who shot dead the man who sexually assaulted and murdered her 7 year old child
Marianne Bachmeier - Wikipedia
Did it in the court room, see footage from a movie here.
That bastard also killed the girl after raping her.
Title should really include this too. Utterly fucked up.
You're correct it should I edited it
Oddly enough, no one in the courtroom saw anything 🤷
"I can't remember a thing, but i do remember at one point we all gave a standing ovation. Can't remember why though".
100% justified
Ah yes. Classic "Everyone deserves a fair trial, until I think they've done a bad enough crime, in which case I'll activately cheer for that right being taken away".
Vigilante justice is NEVER acceptable. Until someone has been justly tried, and convicted they innocent in the eyes of the law. Period, and no exception.
You people cheering this on, and encouraging have on your hands the blood of every single innocent person who was ever killed or assaulted by a vigilante.
Vigilantism has 3 common sources:
Imo, #3 is the only kind that I've seen people who aren't psychopaths express support for and its not just because #3 is more valid but its also because #3 is often carried out against the folks who are in the #1 group so its often a type of vigilante vs vigilante crime.
Plus everybody I've seen expressing support for #3 would be far happier if the legal system did the work instead of a vigilante.
This thread so far has been about extra judicial killing, but can vigilantism encompass less drastic actions? Do you think it is fair to say that the reaction on Reddit/Lemmy every time "the rapist Brock Allen Turner" is mentioned falls under the third type of vigilantism, in the sense that he recieved a light consequence compared to the acts he was proved to have committed? Is the social backlash and the (imo deserved) chorus of "oh the rapist?" in response to his name a form of societal vigilantism?
I appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced post in this volatile thread. Your last sentence immediately made me think of that guy that raped a girl behind a dumpster and then got let off because a judge thought consequences might damage his future. I don't think anyone should kill him, but I'm happy he doesn't get any peace on the internet, and i wish he was in jail.
I did a research report on vigilante justice and the social factors that make it more likely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5az_rOTb0E
Yep, #3 is a sad necessity due to the gaps and inequities in our legal system.
Look mate, for most people this squarely falls under "I don't condone it, but I understand it."
No, people are absolutely condoning this. In some cases they're even celebrating it. "Most people" might not, but the people being criticized, the ones in this thread, absolutely exist and are doing exactly what they're being criticized for.
Vigilante justice is NEVER acceptable. Until someone has been justly tried, and convicted they innocent in the eyes of the law. Period, and no exception.
Devil's advocate: Judicial systems throughout history have had varying levels of success. If a person repeatedly commits murder and is not held to account by the justice system, is it not acceptable for someone to kill them? The net result would be lives saved
There have been many instances throughout history where a person repeatedly commits unspeakable crimes, but is guaranteed immunity from whatever justice system exists in their society. Do you think it's entirely unacceptable for them to receive vigilante justice?
Millions of North Koreans suffer and die under the Kim regime. If a vigilante were to assassinate him, millions of lives would be saved. Do you still contend it is unacceptable to do so? Keep in mind, everything Kim Jong Un has done is perfectly legal under the North Korean judicial system
If you question that interpretation of the result, let's invoke Godwin's Law. If one of the early assassination attempts on Hitler had been successful, WW2 could have been avoided (or at least made far more one-sided), saving tens of millions of lives. Would vigilante justice have still been unacceptable to you?
Seems incredibly amoral to state it's preferable to allow a genocide than to extra-judicially murder the one perpetuating the genocide
This dude was literally currently at trial for murder. That argument might apply AFTER someone has been wrongly acquitted.
This logic is literally NEVER applicable inside a court room, before the verdict has been read.
Got any dead kids? No? Then kindly STFU until you've experienced such pain. Yes, I am qualified to speak on this subject you lucky SOB.
So you're saying the victim of a crime should get to act as judge jury and executioner ?
Like I'm sorry you had to go through that, but how would you feel it your child was falsely accused of murder, and then revenge killed by a family member of a victim at trial.
There's a reason we don't allow vigilante justice.
Your feelings are more important than everyone else's because...?
eyes of the law
*gestures broadly*
Holy shit that's a hell of a video
She doesn't flinch, she's calm, and she doesn't stop firing till she knows the job is done.
I'm glad she didn't do much time
She gunned him down the day I was born.
It's it weird that him admitting to it makes it that much better? Like she didn't kill someone who may have been innocent, she ended the right person and from the video was very calm about the after math.
Edit: apparently the video is from a movie
Respect o7
I guess Germany doesn’t have jury nullification.
They don't have juries.
Fuck that's utterly grim. In her shoes, I might well do the same.
Gary Plauche is another person who took justice into his own hands over the kidnapping and rape of his son back in the 1980s.
Plauche learned that the suspect was being flown back to town in police custody, and figured out the flight he was on. He waited at the airport, pretending to be using a pay phone. As the suspect was escorted past him he walked up and shot him in the head at almost point blank range. A local TV station caught it all on camera and I think you can still find it if you search for it.
Plauche was ultimately convicted of manslaughter but was given a suspended sentence, probation, and community service. No jail time.
And I was just thinking about what an awful place this world is. I have not been contradicted.
Right? Dude got an easy out compared to the seven year old he destroyed. Euthanasia has a place in civilization.
And who gets to decide who gets killed ? Who is infallible, incorruptible and flawless enough to decide who gets executed ?
And if you cannot name them, then tell me: How many innocent people are you willing to murder, per 100 executions. If you cannot name a flawless judge, then innocents will be executed. That is a fact. So tell me: How many innocents are you willing to murder, for heinous criminals to be executed instead of getting life without parole ?
Euthenasia is killing someone with their consent, to prevent their suffering.
Yes, the bastard who assaulted her child deserved death.
No, you can't take justice into your own hands, because vigilante justice means the negation of all civilizational achievements and the rule of law.
The law is fake. Justice is fake. These are ideas pushed on us to maintain the monopoly on violence of the state
More and more, I become convinced in the law of consequences. I think, morally and pragmatically, that her actions were reasonable and a net benefit to society. I think most people would agree with that on some level
At some point you have to ask... What's the value of the law? Why defend it in this case?
Explicit rules are nice to tell people what they can get away with. On a deeper level, we have to decide what's right and wrong as a society.
And that's a blurry line no one should be getting near
Thank you. Came here just to say this.
Life is NOT valued in our society. Justice is not valued in our society. Power (=Money) is.
It is completely acceptable to kill hundreds of thousands for a legal war, the legal declaration that a pandemic is over that truly isn't, or via laws that allow corperations to pollute the local environment with many delayed deaths to follow. Legality is shaped by those who hold power. Just look at what's "legal" in the US right now.
As a parent, friend to a judge (so I've heard the inside scoop) and after some 40+ years in this system, I applaud Vigilantism. #luigi
To anyone downvoting me:
You rightly despise the perpetrator and his actions, but if you advocate vigilante justice, you are showing just as little respect for the law and all the rules of human coexistence as he did. You should all be ashamed.
Is this « rule of law » in the room with us right now?
all civilizational "achievement" happened because of slavery
humans being extinct from the earth believe it or not is a net benefit for the planet. Human exceptionalists need to be reminded of that. So far, as a species, we fucking suck and do not have achievements worthy of universal praise. Everything good we have right now was because of needless suffering.
We arent any better than bees on this earth. Name one human being thats more valuable net to this planet than bees, you know? You cant. Every human sucks compared to a bee. Bees rule, humans fucking drool man. We dont achieve, we steal and claim intelligence.
Are you a parent?
They're commenting on the reality of it, not saying those things
Fuck that guy
To be honest: She was far from a saint herself and it's very likely that she didn't do it for the girl but more to make sure she wasn't painted in even more of a bad light
It's a sad story all along.
Why was she far from being a saint?
She operated a (pretty shady) bar and basically prioritised that and her own enjoyment over her child a lot of times,letting her child sleep in the (guest area of the) bar,even when she was not working and someone else (she barely knew) worked there because she was out partying. Additionally this lifestyle led to her sleeping in for a long time letting her daughter often be unsupervised/uncared for at a very young age (like...toddler age) - as it happened on that day. (She kid skipped school - very likely with her mother knowing and allowing her after a fight they had. And left "to visit a friend the same age" - who would be in school at that time. There are some sources citing neighbours that it's possible she threw her out because the girl was getting on her nerves as she possibly did before).
She actually, under mounting pressure from the German version of CPS and her relatives and friends openly (including in front of the child) discussed giving her up for adoption (like she had done 2 times before with other children)/ claimed she didn't want to be responsible for the child.
She later refused to take part in the court proceedings, mainly these also did shine some light on her role of her as a mother and actually was almost imprisoned for being in contempt of the court. There are some theories that this, together with the fact that the perpetrator claiming that he was blackmailed by the child which back then would have fallen back on her as well (even if obviously untrue) was the real reason she decided to kill the guy at the time she did. (She later on confessed that it was murder and not manslaughter)
Surely a lot of things must be seen in the (very tight and depressing) morals of the time - she was a young woman with a bad family history herself and then her life became even worse. But...that was not the fault of the child as well. And by either standards, todays as well as the ones back then she surely was a bad mother,sorry.
Was she responsible for the murder of her daughter? No. Does that make her less of a bad person and less of a murderer herself? No.
(We had to cover this case in uni extensively - one of my professors actually was working as a DA in the same building back when it happend -- or something like that, can't remeber-)
Hero
As she should. Reminds me of Gary Plauche, and he also did the correct thing.
I did a research report on this subject and the underlying risk factors that make vigilante justice it more likely in a society https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5az_rOTb0E