4w ago

Trans toilet rules 'may force Scottish museums to close'

www.thenational.scot /news/25344028.museums-body-criticises-ehrc-plans-warning-force-closures/

An interim update from the EHRC, published in May, said that “trans women (biological men) should not be permitted to use the women’s facilities and trans men (biological women) should not be permitted to use the men’s facilities, as this will mean that they are no longer single-sex facilities”.
However, a response from Museums Galleries Scotland (MGS), which supports around 455 non-national museums and is funded by the Scottish Government, said EHRC’s proposals may “force some museums to close”, or “risk leaving trans people with no facilities at all” if changes could not be made.

41 comments

Can't they make all toilets unisex? In Sweden a lot of them don't device in male and female. You have your toilet with a sink to wash your hands and a mirror behind a closed door, problem solved.
- They could, but obviously these people would be against that. Because they don't have a rational objection, they're just bigots.
  
  I read this the opposite way.
  Scottish museums are objecting to an anti-trans judgement from the UK. They are saying that if trans-women can't use the women's bathroom, and trans-men can't use the men's bathroom, then they have to close. They're being allies.
  It's based on a recent case where Scotland's highest court stated that a person's gender could change based on a doctor's authority, and this was overturned on appeal by a UK judge.
- The bar I used to work at just had a bunch of toilets in full enclosed stalls, a urinal section around the corner from that, and then communal sinks
  
  Heaven.
  
  Yea this is a common layout for toilets in bars.
- But that might mean there's only room or plumbing connections for (as an example) two or three toilets when there was a room that allowed 4 or 6 toilets. And now the reduced capacity runs against the rules set out in other building codes. I'm not going for or against just saying, see the problems?
  
  I see the problem that someone planned it wrong and now it needs to be corrected.
  But also it's not like it costs an arm and a leg to do it.
- Adding these is usually the way to solve it. There wouldn't be enough room to completely convert existing without losing a lot of capacity.
- That’s clearly not possible, because although unisex toilets have functioned just fine for forever some TERF’s with a lot of money behind them have decided that the moment a man enters a bathroom a woman could also be in the poor damsel’s are in distress and faint due to shock or something.
Gendered bathrooms have always been stupid. Everybody poops, everybody pees, it's good enough to just have a room where everyone can do that.
- Bathroom stalls are nasty. Just have poop rooms with good ventilation and a community sink.
- Oh fuck that. No way I want to line up behind 20 women when I need to drop a deuce
  
  The fun thing is tha t by combining them you reduce the waiting tolime overall for everyone together, while making it a bit longer for the now privileged.
  
  I mean you could do separate lines or something for that— but at the same time maybe that just means you need more bathrooms if there is a significant line. Also maybe making a separate powder room would reduce the lines by directing those who want to do make up or something to a different place.
  
  yeah this isn't really an issue in Denmark where gender neutral toilets are fairly regular.
- Word of caution. Many politicians are into that.
No worries, I'll just hold it until I find a politician to piss on
Fascinating how some people are capable of creating problems out of nowhere. That's Trumponia-tier idiocy.
- We can thank the TERFs and their fellow bigots for managing that.
  
  amplified by the TERF queen rowling, and musk. which also made certain people super-sensitive about trans issues.
- which is a russia-backed sort of propaganda, yes we know putin love to push these sort of things to sow division, what better than CULTURE wars stuff.
Before long, it became clear that private toilet facilities were probably impossible to make work, and the only real option was to revert to public urination and defecation in the street, an option that had worked admirably for many centuries.
- Trans people and people who don't mind trans people get private stalls; TERFs can poo in public so everyone can see if a scary trans person bothers them. If they don't want to, they're welcome to use the stalls too.
Reminder - because trans men are almost always treated as invisible in these conversations - UK law makes it illegal for trans men to piss anywhere at all. Trans women can use the men’s, but trans men cannot use the women’s or the men’s.
It’s fucked.
- trans men are almost always treated as invisible in these conversations
  Seconded. There's almost zero solidarity most of the time in the trans community when it comes to trans-men, who often get treated as though they should just vie for themselves. It's almost like some sort of reflexive trauma of not wanting to associate with anything remotely masculine post-op.
  I've seen trans-men literally get berated and put down for being enthusiastic about anything remotely masculine, be it sports or clothing, 24/7 by other trans people. They fucking hate them.
We should move onto a 'by function' system, where there's one section with urinals, another with toilet cubicles, another could rooms for the handicapped. If women can piss decently into the urinal, more power to them.
Now that I think of it, maybe we should have tissue paper dispensers and bins for people to dab dry their genitals at urinals. Just sticking it back in after flicking it thrice?
Anyone and everyone can use any facility. Although it would be an asshole move to take up the handicap cubicle if there's one waiting. But it would be idiotic to wait in a long line for regular cubicles if it's empty.
- One of the libraries at my university has bathrooms for everyone which simply has solid floor-to-ceiling stalls (as opposed to the flimsy barely standing things that are common in the US).
- That's the way they divide it at the building I trained for my job in (which isn't a unique facility, it's just where the training room is located.) Adults there have two bathroom choices - stalls, or urinals and stalls. The stalls are real stalls that actually provide privacy. There's no gender requirement for either and it works fine for the dozens of people who work and train there. The kids still have gendered rooms, since they are at an abundantly curious age (and some parents have gender requirements for who diapers/potty trains their kids, especially the little girls.) We can honor parents' wishes for their kids, but as adults we can still choose which grown-up bathroom to use for ourselves.
  As a bonus - there are white noise machines in each bathroom, which helps decrease awkwardness across the board.
  
  White noise machines sounds cool. The sounds coming from the (ladies) stall next to the men's is nothing short of impressive.
  Some women going #1 sound like power washers.

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