It's important to note that while this seems counterintuitive, it's only the most efficient because the small squares' side length is not a perfect divisor of the large square's.
What? No. The divisibility of the side lengths have nothing to do with this.
The problem is what's the smallest square that can contain 17 identical squares. If there were 16 squares it would be simply 4x4.
He's saying the same thing. Because it's not an integer power of 2 you can't have a integer square solution. Thus the densest packing puts some boxes diagonally.
this is regardless of that. The meme explains it a bit wierdly, but we start with 17 squares, and try to find most efficient packing, and outer square's size is determined by this packing.
the line of man is straight ; the line of god is crooked
stop quoting Nietzsche you fucking fools
Now, canwe have fractals built from this?
"fractal" just means "broken-looking" (as in "fracture"). see Benoît Mandelbrot's original book on this
I assume you mean "nice looking self-replicating pattern", which you can easily obtain by replacing each square by the whole picture over and over again
With straight diagonal lines.
Homophobe!
hey it's no longer June, homophobia is back on the menu
Why are there gaps on either side of the upper-right square? Seems like shoving those closed (like the OP image) would allow a little more twist on the center squares.
I think this diagram is less accurate. The original picture doesn’t have that gap
You have a point. That's obnoxious. I just wanted straight lines. I'll see if I can find another.
Oh so you're telling me that my storage unit is actually incredibly well optimised for space efficiency?
Nice!
Here's a much more elegant solution for 17
You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like.
Is this confirmed? Like yea the picture looks legit, but anybody do this with physical blocks or at least something other than ms paint?
It is confirmed. I don't understand it very well, but I think this video is pretty decent at explaining it.
The proof is done with raw numbers and geometry so doing it with physical objects would be worse, even the MS paint is a bad way to present it but it's easier on the eyes than just numbers.
Mathematicians would be very excited if you could find a better way to pack them such that they can be bigger.
So it's not like there is no way to improve it. It's just that we haven't found it yet.
Proof via "just look at it"
I feel like the pixalation on the rotated squares is enough to say this picture is not proof.
Again I am not saying they are wrong, just that it would be extremely easy make a picture where it looks like all the squares are all the same size.
Visual proofs can be deceptive, e.g. the infinite chocolate bar.
If there was a god, I'd imagine them designing the universe and giggling like an idiot when they made math.
Bees seeing this: "OK, screw it, we're making hexagons!"
Fun fact: Bees actually make round holes, the hexagon shape forms as the wax dries.
But fear not, bees are still smart! Mfs can do math!
Bestagons*
Texagons
4-dimensional bees make rhombic dodecahedrons
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms why this is the most efficient way?
These categories of geometric problem are ridiculously difficult to find the definitive perfect solution for, which is exactly why people have been grinding on them for decades, and mathematicians can't say any more than "it's the best one found so far"
For this particular problem the diagram isn't answering "the most efficient way to pack some particular square" but "what is the smallest square that can fit 17 unit-sized (1x1) squares inside it" - with the answer here being 4.675 unit length per side.
Trivially for 16 squares they would fit inside a grid of 4x4 perfectly, with four squares on each row, nice and tidy. To fit just one more square we could size the container up to 5x5, and it would remain nice and tidy, but there is then obviously a lot of empty space, which suggests the solution must be in-between. But if the solution is in between, then some squares must start going slanted to enable the outer square to reduce in size, as it is only by doing this we can utilise unfilled gaps to save space by poking the corners of other squares into them.
So, we can't answer what the optimal solution exactly is, or prove none is better than this, but we can certainly demonstrate that the solution is going to be very ugly and messy.
Another similar (but less ugly) geometric problem is the moving sofa problem which has again seen small iterations over a long period of time.
For A problem like this. If I was going to do it with an algorithm I would just place shapes at random locations and orientations a trillion times.
It would be much easier with a discreet tile type system of course
Thanks for the explanation
It's not necessarily the most efficient, but it's the best guess we have. This is largely done by trial and error. There is no hard proof or surefire way to calculate optimal arrangements; this is just the best that anyone's come up with so far.
It's sort of like chess. Using computers, we can analyze moves and games at a very advanced level, but we still haven't "solved" chess, and we can't determine whether a game or move is perfect in general. There's no formula to solve it without exhaustively searching through every possible move, which would take more time than the universe has existed, even with our most powerful computers.
Perhaps someday, someone will figure out a way to prove this mathematically.
It crams the most boxes into the given square. If you take the seven angled boxes out and put them back in an orderly fashion, I think you can fit six of them. The last one won't fit. If you angle them, this is apparently the best solution.
What I wonder is if this has any practical applications.
I hate this so much
That tiny gap on the right is killing me
That's my favorite part 😆
Is this a hard limit we’ve proven or can we still keep trying?
It's the best we've found so far
Do you know how inspiring documentaries describe maths are everywhere, telling us about the golden ratio in art and animal shells, and pi, and perfect circles and Euler's number and natural growth, etc? Well, this, I can see it really happening in the world.
Unless I’m wrong, it’s not the most efficient use of space but if you impose the square shape restriction, it is.
That's what he said. Pack 17 squares into a square
Not complete without the sounds
To be fair, the large square can not be cleanly divided by the smaller square(s). Seems obvious to most people, but I didn't get it at first.In other words: The size relation of the squares makes this weird solution the most efficient (yet discovered).Edit: nvm, I am just an idiot.
The outer square is not given or fixed, it is the result of the arrangement inside. You pack the squares as tightly as you can and that then results in an enclosing square of some size. If someone finds a better arrangement the outer square will become smaller
It is one prove more, why it is important to think literally out of the box. But too much people of this type
I love when I have to do research just to understand the question being asked.
Just kidding, I don't really love that.
But there are 7 squares in the middle with 10 around it, surely that counts for something
