I'm tired of people denying what was obvious in November
I'm tired of people denying what was obvious in November
I get that reality sucks, but that doesn't make your delusions correct :3c
edit: this is specifically about the US, hence the reference to the "liberal experiment" as it was once called. Yes, many other countries are not past the point of no return, but very few are not in grave danger.
I suggest you all to review your American history because things like this have happened in several occasions and to several degrees.
You should know that Tammany Hall was a thing, and so was the Business Plot, and the Kent State shootings and things like the Battle of Blair Mountain were more common than you would believe.
I understand that to young people, seeing what's happening is scary, but democracy is a continuous battle that we tend to forget it exists but that we ought to fight as the alternative is always worse than anything you might imagine (based on the testimonials of survivors).
EDIT: I added few links with worth reading articles.
“Time is a wheel in constant motion always rolling us along. Who wants to look back on their years and wonder where those years have gone?” ― Lee Ann Womack
I suggest you all to review your American history because things like this have happened in several occasions and to several degrees.
None of your examples are anywhere near an actual fascist takeover of the United States. This is certainly a battle that needs to be fought, but the way you made your point implies that this will all blow over like the other things you listed when really, there's a good chance that this is it for American democracy (at least for a couple decades) and everyone in this needs to be aware of that.
I took it as more along the lines of "the end is always near". One of the things people often get wrong about history is the unspoken assumption that any outcomes are guaranteed. We don't know how things will turn out, and neither did people like Smedley Butler. We all have a duty to be active participants in history, and the more we understand the context, the better we can do so.
You need to read up on the history of our liberal democratic system. Mexican American US citizens have been deported on mass before; violent instability has happened before, but not since the civil war has the legislature and judiciary been sidelined so hard by the executive. Not since then has our military been bent like this. We are seeing a transformation to our government beyond what happened in the New Deal era, where so many Rubicons are crossed that it's doubtful we'll have institutional stability within this century.
Old people like you, who grew up in an era where the empire was strong and internally stable, will never understand that your world is gone. You lack the creativity to comprehend that you were living in the unprecedented times; you were living in an era unrepresentative of what history is actually like.
People like you are who I am directing this post to. People who fail to understand why the circumstances are not comparable.
Yes, US democracy is dead. I think it's still got legs in some other countries though.
True. OTOH there's plenty politicians who are trying to pull a Trump these days. It was already noticeable in 2016, and I had high hopes for it being the end of that in 2020, but then 2024 happened...
But all in all, yes, we have to look at the whole world here. The USA won't collapse in a vacuum, nor will it pull all other countries with it.
As an Australia I gotta say Trump was right ... I am getting kinda tired of winning
America can't vote themselves out of the mess they voted themselves into. That ship has sailed. The only "positive" outcome would be a total secession of the blue states, leaving the red ones to fester in their own mess. But it won't be easy.
It's gonna be more like oligarchs try and establish their own competing kingdoms.
Its foolish to think America had any other option long term. Americans might have voted for fascism sooner rather than later but we could not escape the inevitable. When capitalist empires lose their grip they close their hand into a fist. It will happen to you to if you don't do more than just vote.
late reply to your post from 20+ hours ago but when I see things like "we need to leave the red states..." means people like me, who voted opposite of a good majority of others, to die. Don't leave us behind, I beg you (third person you). We are fighting where we can.
Mm yes America = democracy
Mm yes, I was specifically talking about the American context, and specifically America's version of democracy. My bad for not mentioning that in this post.
This is half correct. There is no going back for America (and honestly, if after all this Americans choose the status quo I am going to lose all faith in them), but that doesn't mean democracy is dead. Y'all will have to forge a new path ahead, whether towards fascism or true(r) democracy. As a wise man once said: Never let a good crisis go to waste.
I don't care about systems of governance beyond what they do for us. People are being sent to camps, while countless will die from them dismantling safety regulations and public health policy. No amount of "good opportunities" will change the fact that this is a real nightmare for real people. Don't lose sight of why good systems matter.
No amount of "good opportunities" will change the fact that this is a real nightmare for real people.
True, and exactly because this is a real nightmare for real people we shouldn't forget that there's still a chance to end this particular nightmare and also other, older nightmares that were previously too interwined with the status quo. Resignation is exactly what Trump's goons want and not so coincidentally the exact opposite of what it will take to end this nightmare. In other words: Trump's public health policy and deregulation will only kill countless people if you let him stay in office long enough to continue those things. Those deaths are still preventable.
"The imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear."
Bravest meme
It certainly pissed people off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I choose to be delusional and let things play out a little further before saying everything is fucked. If we just gave up now and accepted it's dead, then they'll make sure it's dead. If we hold hope and keep protesting ( even the violent ones ) something might change.
Read about resistance to the Third Reich for pointers on how the needle might be moved. It's not a perfect comp, but it's the mindset you'll need. Targeting the rich is more important in our case.
I'm tired of people acting like Trump didn't win an election underst democratic processes, claiming that this isn't democracy, instead of recognizing that democracy IS the problem.