I don't do culture wars
I don't do culture wars
35 comments
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All war is class war. Skip the middleman. Culture war shit is class war. Divide and conquer tactic.
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Those ants out number us 100 to 1 and if they ever figure that out our way of life will end.
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<Insert Kent Brockman meme here>
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So lets just pretend other forms of discriminations don't exist ? or what exsctly, is your goal here?
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Focussing on those is a distraction, that you can engage in, if it makes you feel better (and maybe you'll reach minor improvements for some discriminated group), but once you realize that capitalism is the problem, you'll realize that solving that problem would also remove all other forms of discrimination that were brought to us by capitalists to divide us.
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to your last sentence. Yes capitalist use bigotry to divide the working class and distract from the actual solutions to the massive inequality of capitalism.
I agree with that point My other commemt mostly refers to opressive hierarchies being older -for example patriarchy.
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~~No it would not. Yes capitalism must go so do the colonial structures where it originated from. And yes current forms of discrimination interact with capitalism and our current systems and societies. How ever systems of oppression are far older than capitalism and it is at least my goal as of many other leftist mostly anarchists to have a society where hirarchies of opression don't exist.
It is my observation which is not representative obviously, that people who advocate to soley focus on class, who usually ignore the struggles of opressed groups in our society, often hold bigoted views about at least some minorities.
As in your case against people with mental illnesses autism etc.
Back to the previous point.
To just focus on class completly ignores the struggles and the contributions of movemtents that fougth and still figth for the liberation of oppressed groups. like black liberation and queer liberation. just as an example. These things are not distractions. Not only has there been social progress which bettered the lives of people, although that progress has always been a compromise.
In fact your are not going to get a true liberation from capitalism without overcoming colonialism which has also intersections with hetero-cis-allo-endo normative patriarchy, and those are also linket to capitalism. I could list more structures of opression.
Dismanteling capitalism wont solve all problems. It is however an important step towards a liberated world if the systems that follow it are better.~~
sorry this reoly was meant for someine else
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The reply i replied to you is basicly still valid.
I did reply thinking you Where leninsovaries.-> who turned out to most likely be some kind of troll/infiltrator. So the abelism part doesn't really apply.
nevertheless capitalism is a huge problem, however there where other systems of discrimination and exploitation long before capitalism.
We as people who are presumably somewhere on the radical left or far left should still consider that the destruction of capitalism does not automatically lead to liberation of everyone.
Also marginalized groups gaining rigths and protections isn't a mear distraction.
As someone who is nonbinary and bisexual and also has some other marginalisations that I won't go into, Having a bit more acceptance and not being illegal in my home country, and also having easier acces to community does help a lot.
Now that migth change with rising fascism and conservatism. And the discrimination wont end unless the fundemental structures of our oppressive societies get destroyed.
but that is still better than quite a few decades ago where being like me is completly illegal and religated to the margins. I woud not really have terms to describe myself and I would have a very difficult time finding others.
Did neoliberal capitalism and rainbow capitalism lead to this progress ? Obwiously now, it was radical activist that made things better, and the figth is far from over.
Completly ignoring steps for marginalized groups is partially also dangerous.
Essoecially when it comes from movements that are soupposed to aim for a classless and equal society.
For examply my country Is becoming incrisingly more rascist. It always was racist but the amount of racist rethoric is steadily increasing since the pandemic.
All parties except the far left party have jumped on the bandwagen of talking about illegal and unregulated immigration and equating migrants with criminality. The Established Media plays a huge part in this btw.
Now what should far left groups organization and even political parties do??
should they:
- Not Mention Migrants or any other minority at all, purely focusing on class.
- Actively jump on the trend be some kind of pseudo leftist party and soley focussing on the white cishet worker, and his white cishet wife who are under threat from the criminal migrant
- Show active solidarity with migrants. While focusing on broader subjects that affect most people. Basicly calling out bigotry Actively demanding better and also focus on the big problem at hand which is capitalism.
- Be in solidarity and working with other groups and having an intersektional approach.
While also educating people and talking about the problems they have( rent, food, infrastructure, climate catastrophe, etc.)
The answer should obvously be 3. and 4.
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Bridging gaps, forming strong alliances and communities, starting movements, and organizing with like-minded people for change and mutual benefit is how acceptance becomes broader and is the catalyst for culture wars to fizzle out. These actions are the spark that allow people to broadly start to realize there is nothing to be afraid about. A person who is perceivably different or a minority existing, having rights, and thriving doesn't harm anyone or have to be at anybody's expense.
Our politicians and governments no longer represent us and the laws aren't moving in the right direction any time soon. Fighting unjust laws and restrictions and winning politicians over is typically what you'd do as a minority to have your existence be legalized and protected, but I'd argue that we are past the point of no return - laws, reform, and protections aren't going to come quick enough and we need to act urgently.
The more we polarize ourselves against others for holding less than tolerant views and sitting in judgement of them, the harder it is for us to focus on joining hands, organizing, and focusing on solutions and the change we'd like to see (and be). I'm not saying that we should put up with violations of our personal sovereignty, consent to being restricted unjustly by the law, consent to being subject to abuse (physical, verbal, or any other form), or enable or platform these behaviors.
Win the battles you can win - that means focusing on solutions with people that are actually on the side of all of humanity (which includes all people and minorities). The planet and all life on it is at stake.
I feel it's ideal to be generally kind to others to hope for kindness back. Some might say that bigoted and hateful people don't deserve kindness and I'd wholeheartedly agree - you don't owe them anything and it's not your job to force their heart open. But I feel it's important to listen to our hearts and act on them - kindness has immense potential to soften hearts and dissolve boundaries - hate often has the opposite effect.
For example, do you let a person with conservative views who is intolerant, ignorant, and hateful stand in your way and eat your attention and precious life - or do you join hands with others in mutual support for progress and forward movement in our societies?
We can be an unstoppable force by moving out of the direction of the immovable objects and going beyond.
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If there is a classless society, will beautiful people be at an advantage?
I would think so. In other words, there will always be at least two classes.
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Sure, but there's a difference between being at an advantage and being the politically dominant class. The crucial thing about the working class owning class divide is that the owning class essentially has all the political power, and uses it to subjugate the working class. So what you're saying is a truism, but it misses the point that the interesting thing isn't the classes themselves but rather the power relations between them.
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Who cares, as long as they're not disproportionately represented, which is exactly what's happening with the current class system.
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Wish I could focus on the class war, but as a trans person I'm kinda the focus of the culture war and have to be on the defensive.
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I agree. Trying to fix the conservative voting bloc from the ground up isn't going to work. We're boxing puppets, wondering why they won't go down, when we're ignoring the strings holding them up. You can't honestly question them on their positions because their positions, when regurgitated, are often barely digested at all.
They are just handed the rules of engagement from up top.
And "up top" is all billionaires.
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Actually if you object to me turning every conversation into a Brave Conversation about my pet issue you're literally a Nazi and it's your fault (not mine, never mine) that Donald Trump won.
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I have a strong suspicion that the CIA has been stoking you to divide the left. The fact that you consider fighting racism and transphobia "wasting time" shows that you are incapable of building the solidarity that would be required for a socialist revolution to succeed.
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You can't effectively address those who are transphobic and racist by fighting them, shaming them, and being hateful towards them. Bigotry and hate are fueled by a lack of understanding, acceptance, sometimes by a sense of superiority, fear, tribalism, religion, propaganda, incoherence and disconnection, confusion, and of course also by hate.
Adding to a cycle doesn't break it, we need to move past these cycles of hate and hurt by joining hands with those who are on the side of all of humanity.
The people living in hate and fear who have dug their feet deep into the ground, blocking progress or even regressing it, standing with their closed hearts will catch up eventually.
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No it would not. Yes capitalism must go so do the colonial structures where it originated from. And yes current forms of discrimination interact with capitalism and our current systems and societies. How ever systems of oppression are far older than capitalism and it is at least my goal as of many other leftist mostly anarchists to have a society where hirarchies of opression don't exist.
It is my observation which is not representative obviously, that people who advocate to soley focus on class, who usually ignore the struggles of opressed groups in our society, often hold bigoted views about at least some minorities.
As in your case against people with mental illnesses autism etc.
Back to the previous point.
To just focus on class completly ignores the struggles and the contributions of movemtents that fougth and still figth for the liberation of oppressed groups. like black liberation and queer liberation. just as an example. These things are not distractions. Not only has there been social progress which bettered the lives of people, although that progress has always been a compromise.
In fact your are not going to get a true liberation from capitalism without overcoming colonialism which has also intersections with hetero-cis-allo-endo normative patriarchy, and those are also linket to capitalism. I could list more structures of opression.
Dismanteling capitalism wont solve all problems. It is however an important step towards a liberated world if the systems that follow it are better.
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I'm sure this position had nothing to do with your rampant abelism...
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As someone new here, and not on the left, this is the most interesting/healthy discussion I've seen on Lemmy so far. Thanks!
35 comments
Culture wars that are especially distracting and polarizing are:
GenX: "We voted for the same assholes as the Boomers. Forgotten generation ftw"
j/k
but seriously, GenX really is forgotten in the culture wars too
I don't think that's a bad thing. Everyone should be forgotten in the culture wars and we should focus on the class wars.
Yeah the generation war idea needs to die when you have Genx, millennials and genz billionaires all attending the commemoration party of the boomer who won the presidency. And the house itself stretches across all generations of assholes. You got leavitt, Johnson, Vance, Elon, Donald doing gross things daily. Every generation is represented here being capable and willing to be full on assholes.
Male vs. female