Bring back real social consequences for politically affiliating with a fascist

COVID broke people's brains too. don't know about your timeline but in my opinion while some people started showing their true colors, some people actually changed during that time.

Im 50 and Im not straight. A lot of the guys my-age didn't grow and become accepting of people they just learned to shut the fuck up about their opinion in public in the early 1990s. Those guys didn't raise their kids to be any different they were just quiet about it.

They just got really good at masking the shit in their head, don’t blame yourself

Yeah, its a bummer. For those relationships you value you can still talk about why they feel that way. Its harder when they are consumed by the fb algo though.

If you think back before that, weren't those the most self-centered and selfish ones?

I remember a situation with a friend of mine from back in my Uni days (not a case of him turning out to be a Trumpist but a case of him having drifted away from his family, rather than "facing it like a man" he just kept deceiving them and living a double life until things inevitably blew up) and looking back from my by then far more mature and adult point of view than when he and I became friends I could spot how he was always the guy who put himself ahead of the rest of the group.

I get the impression that Trumpists are those who are a mix of being the most "what's in it for me" types (to the point of putting the satisfaction of petty and even mean personal psychological wants ahead of other people's actual lives) and useful idiot, and those would have a track record of putting themselves first even in situations were one wouldn't act like that with friends.

one of the people i know, love watching UFC, joe roegan, naturally he became a trump-lite person overtime, even starting to wear on me that is showing signs of being anti-vaxers.i notice these new trumpers are often pretty ignorant of the news in general, like they dont actually go look up his policies and what they will do. and supporting people like YE despite what he has become is all pretty clear.

That seems to be his superpower. He is so blatantly and unashamedly despicable that he emboldens every asshole on Earth to stop holding back on their assholery, but instead flaunt it like never before.

"If he can do it, why shouldn't I do it as well?"

They don’t see it as fascism. They just see that their “team” is “winning”, and the “other” people are losing. That’s all life is to them, winning over everyone else, even when it goes against self preservation.

Many have no grasp on political philosophy.

I own a business, and I wouldn’t hire someone who is openly MAGA.

I work in the O&G industry. Quite a few of the rank and file office folks are vanilla liberals. The senior execs are all Christian MAGA.

Silicon Valley has the same problem. The professional working class is liberal, while the senior sex pest corporate ice chewers are all in the same insane Scientology cults and Mormon tabernacle choirs and Longtermist Transhuman Collectives.

I've seen the same dynamic in health care, professional sports, Big Law, finance, heavy industry...

Great that you managed to break into the club as a Normal. But I don't see a future where I'm sitting on the board of a Fortune 500 corporation. A notable reason why is that I'm not working my way up the chain at Opus Dei.

Or, less generously, they enjoy the cruelty and hate.

I've boycotted Republicans/Conservatives since at least 2000, when they decided that it was perfectly acceptable to steal the presidency.

Once they fully adopted the "ends justify the means" approach, I considered Conservatism to be a character flaw. I wouldn't be friends with people who physically abuse their spouses or their children, and by the same logic, I won't be friends with people who abuse our society, our government, or our citizens.

you would be surprised, only about half of the trump supporters I've met know about and support him for being fascist (among other things). The other half think that the deportations and basically anything negative about trump is fake news, a smaller amount also think they are voting for an imaginary non-maga republican party.

Nah, way earlier than 2024. In fact ever since the "grab them by the pussy" tape was released before the election in 2016, these miserable bastards knew what he was about and still chose to support him. No decency to be found among them from that point on.

the tricky thing has been sorting real fascists from those just so grossly misinformed by the propaganda network that they're basically decent but brainwashed.

Unfortunately, we are at a point in human history where there is no functional distinction between smart fascists and stupid fascists. The end result is still propagation of unbridled evil and it cannot be tolerated regardless of the origin.

It's a dumb line anyway. There's no obligation for us to tolerate their antisocial behavior in the first place. All that line does is betray that the fascist treats liberalist ideals as a game or a weakness, only a fool would humor their insincere appeals to liberalism.

Jean-Paul Sartre, Réflexions sur la question juive (1946)

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

I will tolerate anyone but the intolerant

"...The tolerant left..."

Your words. Not mine.

It's Okay To Punch Nazis

Considered a public service, ideally.

I mean, it should be socially acceptable to punch Nazis.

Yes, it should be that way everywhere. In plenty of societies, it already is.

An international friend of mine in the UK was let off lightly by a judge for punching a Nazi, because the victim was a Nazi. Obviously judges can be a game of luck so I'm not claiming this is a low-risk action, but law isn't set in stone.

it's like returning the shopping cart: you don't have to punch nazis, but if you don't do it you're a bit of a dick

They're talking about 'affiliating with' too. The plain truth is that people who aren't fascists themselves still enable fascism. (Yes, I know, the whole "1 fascist sitting at a table of 10 is just 10 fascists" line is a great slogan, but at the end of the day, there's no point wasting time flaming someone by calling them a fascist when they don't think they are one, it's semantics, the critial point is they're a fascist-enabler regardless and therefore responsible for and complicit in fascism)

Affiliating in this case means "tolerating being around". It doesn't really have anything to do with becoming or being fascist.

We tried hugging them but they don't like it.

It's not though, it's a very direct exposure to other viewpoints. Those who can't reflect on the consequences weren't going to be convinced by you talking at them in any case.

Trump supporters do not argue in good faith and that fact alone is a good reason to not interact with them.

Yes. But like with cancer you need to kill it before it kills you

choke them out if need be, they are adults who are responsible for informing themselves if they want to live in the real world

No.

Maybe instead we should let them do whatever they want with no repercussions or pressure to change ever.

Fuck them, and fuck yeah to the students (and everyone) pushing back

[https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3df25374-e6c8-4888-a809-726d0875f456.jpeg]

They already live in an echo chamber. I don't think their worldview is gonna change drastically.

trump supporters dont want opposing viewpoints though. So its no issue to block them, as they want to do it to every institution, its fair game.

You sound like those entirely out-of-touch milquetoast libs who said back in 2016 that "this will all die off with the Boomers!" while completely ignoring that all of their pundits and media influencers were Gen X, Millennials, and Zoomers who were openly indoctrinating children into fascist ideology. Maybe you havent had any day-to-day exposure to opposing viewpoints?....because you have NO idea who you're dealing with.

i voluntarily hung around a dude who inserted fashy shit into every single conversation for like two years patiently and gently trying to bring him around. my logic was that regular exposure to trans people would help him see that we're just normal ass people who are being targeted with political smears. in the end the effect was that i became a token queer to validate his shit ass views, which did not change at all.

the correct strategy is to keep them out of your circle so they can't infect your friends with their bullshit and colonize your community, once they have established presence in your group they'll work towards edging out anyone who isn't fash until it becomes their community.

i hate it. i wish there was an empathetic, nonviolent, human way to deal with these guys but i've done my damnedest and there just isn't.

A call to boycott doesn't mean no one was boycotting before. It's providing solidarity and reinforcing, for those that might feel isolated in their actions, that they aren't just swimming against the current.

We must only do one thing.

Dunno why you're downvoted. Fascists never gave up power to anyone who waved signs in the permitted area.

Or you are, but you don't have much of a choice in the matter, because their parents sit on the Board of Governors or sponsor the Frat or otherwise are the people you got into Harvard to suck up to.

It's like telling a young Mark Zuckerberg not to be nice to the Winklevoss Twins. He's not doing it because he likes them. He's doing it to leverage their family connections and wealth. Literally the whole reason anyone goes to Ivy League schools to begin with.

Fascists and fascist sympathizers are not allies.

Well well, 20 downvotes, ZERO replies or arguments against these facts.
LOL