Happy Birthday, Karl Marx!

Today I honor Cowbee's Sisyphean task of explaining that production/trade and capitalism are two different things 🫡

So as a leftist that I think identifies with Marxist-Leninist ideology but that didn’t find the communist manifesto an interesting nor easy read (it was small but not really approachable) are there any books that you recommend? I’m no economist but I do like reading logical arguments as to why capitalism doesn’t work, or better said, doesn’t work for the good of the majority but instead for a small minority (for whom it works very very well)

Is it? I'm pretty sure private property and ownership was a thing in the middle ages. People selling stuff to make a living, merchants... Isn't the oldest known text some babylonian dude complaining about the faulty products of a merchant?

I think this meme is a little unfair. For the sake of this comment, I am assuming that op is 100% correct about his definitions and I want to stress that I don't claim that "capitalism" is human nature.

Op basically admits in his comments that the general public doesn't have a good understanding of communism or capitalism and consequently how do define them. E.g. He keeps having to explain the difference between capitalism and trade with currency, highlighting the lack of understanding of what capitalism is.

This should make you question what a person means when they say that capitalism is human nature. Do they mean capitalism or their understanding of it? The answer is obvious.

So what do they mean? Given that people don't just walk around saying "capitalism is human nature", it is probably fair to see it as what it attempts to be, a justification. A justification usually follows a critic. And what is that critic? I think it is fair to roughly assume that it is a justification for the usual critic of capitalism. The degradation of human life by encouraging a competitive environment which leads to exploitation and hierarchy. That exploitation is powered by the violence of controlling limited resources.

So the question becomes, could the person saying "capitalism is human nature" mean that humans are competitive hierarchical animals who will use any means to control, oppress and exploit it's environment, including economical violence. If yes, then the age of capitalism is irrelevant and ancient Rome is probably what the person would identify as what they believe to be human nature.

In short, I think the response in the meme doesn't accurately engages with the challenge of the claim and would probably fail to convince anyone and probably makes you seem intellectually dishonest from the perspective of the conversation partner.

I don't believe cowbee is intellectually dishonest, but that they fail to consider the issue from a different perspective, as we all do daily.

Where does 500 years come from? Capitalism goes back at least 3000 years, right?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nāṣir

Communism is actually human nature. Think about before the human era when everyone was hunter gatherers working together and sharing was what kept everyone alive. There was no currency or concept of ownership.

I don't think the Marxist definition of capitalism lines up with the colloquial definition. Colloquially, it's thought of as systems in which money is exchanged for goods and services. As opposed to communism, where it is not. (These are both oversimplified)

When people say capitalism has been around for thousands of years, what they mean is the colloquial definition. Redefining their terms with the Marxist version doesn't address their actual point.

Peter Kropotkin comes flying down from the sky in a cape:

"Mutual aid is human nature and a factor of evolution"

You guys would have a very bad time in the 1500s let's be real

Wrong, capitalism exist since exist money and greedy people which govern countries, since Pharaons and Kings, since the concept of property.

Isn't capitalism itself not only like 100-150 years old?

Maybe not have him be represented as a genocidal facist?

And they say that marxism is outdated lol

Somewhere between every man (and woman) for her (him) self and a general safety net for all the truth lies. And it's probably closer to the safety net. There's an awful lot of last stupid people, a few hardworking smart and educated people, lots of hardworking smart people and a few handful of rich assholes. Somehow we're all trapped in this flying ball of dirt.