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So he's saying that people whose entire qualification are they went through a 2 week boot camp or through a youtube tutorial aren't qualified...? I think? I tend to agree if thats all theyve done, but to be honest a lot of my degree felt like it could have been a 4 hour YT tutorial.
People who get out of uni have no real world experience and should be treated as a juniors though. I've met a lot of people who have book smarts and no idea what to do after theyre in an org. They're weird to work with because you can explain a concept, they'll get it but not be able to apply it or fully see relevance. They're intelligent but lack experience, which seniors provide.
The LinkedIn OP doesn't write clearly, but seems to think junior roles don't do real work. He clearly needs to work in a SOC role to see the difference between a junior and a senior. Lacking experience doesn't mean no meaningful output.
I've hired people who did a bootcamp or whatever, and I tend to ask what else they've done. The good candidates will have an interesting side project and learned a ton outside of the program, and the poor candidates will try to pass classwork off as "personal projects."
We've hired bootcamp people who are way better than people with masters degrees. And I don't just mean faster, I mean they're actually better at the conceptual stuff. Some people just learn better by doing than reading, so they can catch up.
That said, our best "bootcamp engineer" is doing a degree right now while working full time (dude is a beast) to fill in the gaps.
I have met many so many people fresh from university. They studied computer science and they just couldn't code. Like the code quality was abysmal. I literally dealt with people who didn't know how to use git. 6 months later, they were fine. But at the start...
No university has the time to teach you coding.
That guy is acting like universities did.
Yeah I had uni projects with people in the same degree as me (Comp Sci) who straight up said they never learned to code. It baffled me that two people would both leave the degree not knowing the same stuff. I honestly don't know how they were passing classes in some cases.
There's definitely too much knowledge for any one bootcamp, uni course or YT tutorial to teach and experience gaps are hard to identify until they come up. Best thing uni did was teach me how to teach myself, but someone following YT tutorials likely has that skill. That's probably the most important skill to have as someone in tech imo.
Yeah… I’m a software engineer that came to it from a non-traditional path. I did finish college, law school, and practiced law for years before I switched careers.
But I was always a serious hobbyist in IT/programming since I was a kid. When I decided to switch careers, yeah I did a lot of learning (filling in gaps) on platforms like Udemy and YouTube. You can learn a LOT on those platforms if you do a little work and figure out who the reputable instructors are. I found it to be a lot of very practical instruction but also plenty of CS theory available too.
Turns out, it’s a lot like college - the experience is what you make it in many ways.
I have a senior engineer position these days and, sure, I still have a little imposter syndrome sometimes. But my co-workers who have CS degrees insist I’m not missing much and that they often forget I don’t have one until I make a self-deprecating joke about it.
Hey don't let me get you down, it sounds like you learned a lot and you're good at what you do. Maybe the elitist part of me (I hated uni but I arguably went to a "good school") a little bit wants others to go through the exam + assignment structure I did just to verify they are "good". But, I think the industry is shifting towards hiring from a test of ability, plus there's the 3-6 month probationary periods...
I don't mean to say everyone needs a degree, just that people can complete a 2 week bootcamp, and still not be qualified. Just like how some people can learn a lot from structuring their own education. I needed others to tell me what I needed to learn, and wouldn't have had the discipline to learn from YouTube.
There's no perfect answer and too much knowledge to transfer than a degree can provide anyway. If you can code, you're good enough. Take that with the caveat of: everyone still has a lot more to learn. Imposter syndrome is the norm, so is burnout. Take care of yourself and try to enjoy.
Oh and please - for the love of the cyber workforce - learn about common vulnerabilities and how to avoid writing them in to systems!
I hope my first reply didn’t come off as defensive - I did not mean for it to. I think I actually agree with you to a large degree.
I agree that most bootcamps/YouTube courses are probably not enough by themselves, in most cases.
I switched careers in my late 30s. So, I had over 20 years at the hobbyist level to build on. Also, law school definitely taught me how to teach myself things. For me, YouTube and Udemy were a big help to fill in gaps and help organize things I had been learning in a more piecemeal way over the years.
But you’re right - it’s so important to continue learning things after entering the profession. I have made a lot of efforts to try to do that, including going back and learning concepts I have been told are part of most CS degree programs.
So, I’m trying!