Linux @lemmy.ml packetloss @lemmy.ml 1y ago

X11 vs Wayland

I'm a seasoned Linux user, but mostly for servers and services, not really for desktop use.

I've dabbled in some desktop distros on my personal rig a few times in the past, but ultimately due to specific games, I've gone back to Windows.

I recently installed Arch and KDE. Upon initial boot I noticed it was defaulted to Wayland. Every time I would try to log in it would just go to a black screen then cycle back to the login screen. Picking X11 would bring me to the desktop.

Basic Specs:

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D
nVidia RTX 4090

I have been doing some reading into this and it looks like the issue is due to the proprietary nVidia drivers, but there are solutions to work around this.

I know nothing of Wayland other than its supposed to be more secure. My question is, is it worth the time/effort to get Wayland working? I primarily use my system for gaming. X11 seems to be working just fine for me right now.

Forgive me if I'm using some of the terminology wrong, still learning.

EDIT - Selling my gpu is not an option. I knew ahead of time that AMD has superior Linux support, but the 4090's performance can't be matched by anything AMD has. Maybe next upgrade I'll go back to AMD if they have the top performer.

22 comments

X11 is deprecated, it's been removed from RHEL, and hasn't had dedicated maintainers for years. You might as well switch to Wayland (and xwayland if needed) now, it's not really the case that you have an option.
- Still no issues on Debian.
  
  I imagine you're talking about stability issues and not the numerous security flaws with X11 that are baked in to the protocol. Wayland is an improvement for many reasons, not just stability and the fact that it is actively developed unlike X11.
  
  Some reading:
  
  https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.html
  
  https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-debunked.html
I'm using Arch, Wayland, AMD GPU, Discord, Steam (Proton, so xWayland) for playing. I don't remember when I switched to Wayland, might be even more than a year.

I remember that I liked something about configuration and internal logic but mostly, for me, it just works. I don't see much difference from purely user perspective.
- Does Wayland allow desktop/app streaming via discord natively? I remember trying to screen share in discord last year on Ubuntu and it didn't work because of Wayland. I read that there were workarounds, but I didn't have the time to invest in that then.
  
  They fixed this sometime this year. Camera and screen sharing in Discord work, OBS works too
I love Wayland but I'm not using Nvidia. I really hope th3y figure that Nvdia stuff out soon because it's such a roadblock to many people when it comes to Wayland
- Nvidia is the one who had things to figure out. Their poor support for GBM and closed drivers are the reason the Wayland developers have not been able to improve the experience on NVIDIA
If gaming is your focus I would suggestedtio stick to x11 for some time. If you want to try an arch based distro I would suggested to stick with archo orendeveross. Thy are for the normal userwazy easier then pure arch.I
I had many issues running Arch+Wayland+nvidia because, as a long-time i3 user, I figured that migrating to Sway would be the best choice based on so many people in the community talking about it. I tried moving over several times, every few months to see if the experience had improved but each time I got frustrated with how terrible and buggy the environment was.

Trying out Hyprland was a complete game-changer. I've been running it full-time for about 2 months and it's completely stable, supports everything I need to run, and is more efficient: the battery on my laptop lasts about 30% longer compared to my i3/picom/X11 setup.

So yeah, I highly recommend Hyprland if you've tried sway in the past and didn't get anywhere with it.
In your situation, I would say to stick with X11. I'm still using X11 for gaming, but Wayland for most other things. Maybe try Wayland again in a few years. And when it's time to buy new hardware, maybe avoid Nvidia.

If you want to have another go at getting it working, check out what the Arch wiki says for KDE:

If you are an NVIDIA user with the proprietary nvidia driver, also enable the DRM kernel mode setting. If that does not work, too, check the instructions on the KDE wiki.

As for the question of security, I want to emphasize that X11 is not increasing your risk of getting hacked. If one of your applications is compromised, then X11 acts as one method by which an attacker could further their attack or extract information, but other methods would usually be easier for an attacker. You could use flatpaks or firejail to mitigate those other methods, but only after you've done that would Wayland provide a meaningful security benefit.
Enjoy your NVIDIA card in Linux, should bring you many surprises. Being much older now, i dont like surprises so I went with the AMD only solution. No more surprises!
I would double check if you have options nvidia_drm modeset=1 in your modprobe.d. This is necessary for Wayland. I can login to KDE Wayland just fine with my 3090, but I still stick with X11 for now because of VRR and overall better input latency. The input latency issue isn't an Nvidia specific thing, although Nvidia does perform worse with Wayland than AMD in some cases.

And while you're at it add options nvidia NVreg_PreserveVideoMemoryAllocations=1 so that your GPU saves video memory when your system suspends.
- This is the right answer. I can't even count the number of times people have shrugged off Wayland because Arch doesn't include this kernel parameter by default and they didn't read the Arch wiki.
Just a head up to be careful with 7900 XTX if you do plan on getting an AMD GPU like other people on here are suggesting.

When I purchased 7900 XTX, AMD doesn't offer me any way to control the fan speed on 7900 XTX and it always get stuck on 5% speed. I literally tried everything from using hwmon mode setting to manual (it stuck on auto and refuse to switch to manual), literally modifying the AMD GPU driver in kernel to forcibly set the manual mode for fan speed, it doesn't work and instead it locks up the Kernel, and tried literally every application that exists for setting fan speed on 7900 XTX.

I tried to contact the manufacturer to refund me, they refused to pay me back in full and want me to reduce what I get back, I paid $1000 for it, they want me to pay $100 shipping and to only be qualified to receive $400 from them. I ended up keeping the 7900 XTX and basically went nuclear on fixing the GPU. This was literally within 1 week of receiving the GPU mind you. AMD is ranked far below Nvidia after my absurdly negative experience with them and I would rather go with Intel than AMD at this point and that is saying a lot, because it's not only my GPU that is a problem, but it also with their software and driver like ROCm that NEVER worked, ever.

I created a plastic strap via 3D printing on top of the GPU and create a negative pressure fan to cool it down, it can stay under 50 degree Fahrenheit at 100% utilization.
- Talk to a hardware youtuber, they might do a story on your shady GPU OEM
Little late to the party, but I'll chime in. I have a 3080, and for the most part, Wayland works, but there are a few problems that keep me from using it as a daily driver. G-Sync doesn't work at all, and when I put my PC to sleep, upon wake I end up needing to do a full reboot because of severe graphical issues. When it is running though, it's pretty smooth, with only a few graphical issues here and there. I still daily drive X11 though until the major bugs are fixed.
- .

22 comments