It's all "ableism is bad! Support people with mental disorders!"...
It's all "ableism is bad! Support people with mental disorders!"...
...until it is someone with narcissistic personality disorder, psychopathy and sociopathy, but mostly NPD.
EDIT: There seems to be some misunderstandings about this post. It is not an attack on this community or the users here, it's just a general vent I have for the type of people that claim to be anti-ableist until it is something they don't like.
Hey y'all, since this is a sensitive topic and there's been a lot of discussion which involved big emotions, I wanted to just drop by and assure the community that we're aware this thread exists and that some of the discussion here can be uncomfortable. At least at this point in time, I don't personally feel the need to step into any of these conversations to intervene, because I believe that the community has managed to have a meaningful discussion over a really difficult topic.
With that being said, there are some big emotions in this thread and some of the content may trigger you, especially if you've suffered abuse from people struggling with mental disorders or you have a mental disorder that is heavily stigmatized. There are strong statements on both sides of the field here, and I personally think leaving them up is healthier for a nuanced understanding of how much abuse can destroy someone's life as well as how much assumptions about behavior can be deeply hurtful to experience as well.
However, if you do see behavior in here that is clearly not nice behavior and you believe that one party is instigating please still go ahead and report it. We're not all seeing and all knowing and we don't want this post to go off the rails either. Thanks! 💜
I mean, there's support and then there's enabling. Not all things that ND people do are good, either for them or those around them. We as a community don't act like it's ok for Autistic people to go around grabbing women's tits "cause they don't understand social conventions" (though I've absolutely come across this argument before, which infuriated me), why would we act like it's ok for NPD people to manipulate and emotionally abuse those around them "cause it's just the way they are"? The goal is to support them in a way that limits harm: both the harm that comes to them from outside, and the harm they can do to others.
This is the most NPD post ever trying to make this comparison. People with disabilities or mental disorders that hurt people when unmanaged SHOULD be treated differently. No it's not the same thing as ensuring blind or people in wheel chairs can get around without assistance or making sure people with autism get job opportunities.
Yeah, we suspect my sister is either Borderline or NPD. This is exactly the post she might make equating acceptance for neurodivergent personalities with her own traits that actively hurts others.
And it's to the point that many posters fell for it. I saw this thread much earlier and just couldn't view this as a good-faith statement to even start from - so I didn't engage.
Kinda wish the rest of the fediverse didn't engage with it - I certainly don't view it as an "important conversation" it's laughably manufactured and in bad faith. I have a sense that Beehaw's admin response artificially inflated the importance of this as well.
Quick question, who in the heck is benefiting from this discussion? To me it looks like the trolls are getting the most out of it.
The original post is playing the victim card. A classic manipulative tactic.
Other people engaged because that's how manipulation works. I almost engaged before I recognized that I was being manipulated into defending a position on a premise I don't even agree with.
Once you recognize the patterns of manipulative behaviour it becomes easier to stop yourself from engaging. Manipulative people depend on people who can't identify the bullshit.
The other reply to me was also clearly someone trying to manipulate me by saying I say/think/implied things that I didnt. Always best not to engage.
What kind of response are you expecting? Or is this just a rant/vent? I don't agree with your statement entirely, many people would also want people with NPD, psychopathy or sociopathy to get support. The problem, however, is that it is really hard for most to give people with strong narcissistic or manipulative traits the support they need. Similarly, I also have compassion with pedophiles and wish them the support they need. But obviously I don't want them to be enabled (or even allowed) to follow their sexuality. Same goes for people with narcissistic and manipulative traits. I want them to get support but not be enabled or allowed to hurt or manipulate others.
Recently I stumbled upon this podcast called "The Bright Sessions" where they basically envision neurodivergent people and/or people with mental disorders as having superhuman powers. There also is a character that might fall into your description of people who are not treated with compassion. The podcast really explores what that means and how compassion can look like with a person like that.
ETA: and this comes from a person who has been traumatized over decades by various people with strong narcissistic traits.
Recently I stumbled upon this podcast called "The Bright Sessions" where they basically envision neurodivergent people and/or people with mental disorders as having superhuman powers.
Unrelated to this thread, but Julia Morizawa (Dr. Bright) has a character which plays a big part in the later episodes of another great podcast called The Amelia Project, which is a lovely, darkly humourous, and oftentimes poignant little series. Actually, her voice is in every episode from the beginning, but her character doesn't actually come into play until a little later.
Oooh, this sounds really nice! Thanks for the recommendation ♥
Since I've listened to Biotopia (in Spanish though) I haven't been able to find any fictional podcast that is as great. But I'm enjoying the bright sessions quite a bit :)
The problem is that people with those disorders are the ones most likely to be the abusers. They are also the least likely to seek out help. There's a reason it's called "The Dark Triad".
We're literally too busy doing damage control. This is just the 'but why don't you tolerate intolerance' argument. I'm sure there are people struggling with this stuff who manage to avoid hurting and manipulating the people around them, and that's great for them.
But we also live in a world rife with abuse and exploitation, and we won't get past it by just ignoring manipulation. We've got all these other people who've been victimized, so we kind of need to focus on them with this particular pattern.
You can't just will someone else to stop abusing others and face their own shit, and frankly it's incredibly hard to tell the difference between an abuser in the calm part of their cycle and someone who's stopped repeating it.
For me the litmus test there is honesty. I've given people I've known were manipulative another chance, but if they show that their interactions are still based in fundamental dishonesty, what am I supposed to do with that? Sacrifice myself endlessly in the hopes that they decide to stop treating me like a punching bag?
I think not. I think I'll be out here keeping an eye out for dishonesty at the root of people's interactions with others and run like hell when I find it so I don't waste another second of my life being controlled and tormented.
‘but why don’t you tolerate intolerance’ argument
This was my exact thought. This seems like someone trying to excuse this shit. You can dress it up as just a personality disorder, but these personality types are toxic.
I hope people struggling with Cluster B personality disorders get the help they need. However, I’m too traumatized by abuse from people with these disorders to engage with anyone who exhibits the associated toxic behaviors.
It's not "something we don't like".
If that's your take I'm not sure what reaction you're looking for.
Obviously people should get the support/help they need.
I hope the responses here resonate with you and help you clear up misunderstandings you have.
The thing is there are negative aspects in NPD and ASPD, and those can be overcome, so support for these disorders does not mean celebrating but guiding toward remission.
Thank you for posting this, I understand the nuance of this and agree that folks who have been through trauma and come out of it with these understandable reactions and coping mechanisms are not necessarily to blame. I would rather focus on healing and helping.
However, quick aside there's no such thing as 'sociopathy', even officially it's now called 'ASPD'. Just thought you should know!
Hello, what would you say the current problem is with the way folks with these various conditions are treated and how can we better treat them and support them etc?