Wording matters. We should want people to listen and join. This has been making the rounds without a great deal of backlash.
Wording matters. We should want people to listen and join. This has been making the rounds without a great deal of backlash.
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I think a lot of people overemphasize the importance of converting a MAGA enthusiast into an ally. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for accepting people who recognize the error of their ways. But there's realistically not much return to be had there. The important conversions are:
- Low-information Trump voters/casual supporters -> Anti-Trump
It's estimated that around 25% of people who voted for Trump in 2024 fall into this category. People who voted for Trump but don't consider themselves MAGA. These are the "price of eggs" voters. Maybe some gen z bros who wanted their crypto to go up and got convinced by right coded pod casters that Trump wasn't a monster. We want to convert them into voters that vote against MAGA or stay home.
- Anti-Trump observers -> Anti-Trump activists
All movements have people who are ideologically aligned but do not actively participate. It's no small thing for someone to decide that they want or need to take an active role.
- People who didn't vote -> Anti-trump voters
In a recent poll, 89% of people who didn't vote said they disapproved of Trump's job performance. The way to overcome their apathy and get them out to vote is to support candidates with progressive agendas that they feel will have a material impact on improving their lives. The "hey, at least we're better than those assholes" strategy might win Dems some races in the short term but long term success means actually bringing about positive economic change. This also means tapping into anti-establishment feelings that run deep within society.
All the arguments in the OP are true and are worth stating. They will help people with lower exposure to politics see the forest for the trees. However no one drinking the MAGA kool-aid is gonna say "Yeah this lib who is talking down to me, they're right and everything I believe is wrong".
So many democrats don’t understand how someone could possibly be stupid/blind enough to vote for Trump.
If those same people were switched at birth with the Republicans they look down on them they would probably be voting Republican.
It is always worth trying to understand where other people are coming from. If you didn’t have the education that you got, if you were raised in the environment they were raised in and heard the messages they heard and suffered through whatever types of challenges they suffered (instead of the ones you did) then you would have a different world view. You would. That is a fact.
I am surrounded by democrats and they all think republican voters are low class idiots. If I were a republican then why would I want to vote for a party of people who obviously think I’m a low class idiot?
I feel bad for them, sure.
They still need to take responsibility.
They need to first be in a position to experience the consequences of their behavior in order to even be introspective about themselves.
The prosecution of the January 6 rioters was a wake up call for many of them, and that's what it takes: FAFO.
Until they were all pardoned. A big part of the lesson for many became; We get away with it if we win.
Definitely this was Trumps takeaway. He broke the law his first term many times with little or no consequence so of course he is doubling down.
Nah, I was raised Republican and just didn't buy into the obvious hate slop. This kind of political and ideological determinism is just as harmful. Stop making excuses for these people.
Do you feel like calling a whole group “these people” is a helpful approach?
I think that's an excuse, if anything the left has been overly tame and tolerant of maga/Republicans/conservatives under the guise of free speech. The idea of them being low class idiots came from their flavor of insanity of voting against their own interests with every single round of trickle down economics.
If anything they're being too nice with their description.
So why are they idiots do you think? Like are you just naturally and inherently superior to all of them?
Or maybe they were raised differently than you were and taught different things than you were. Exposed to different ideas. Maybe they lack knowledge because they went to a shitty school rather than because they are inferior.
Or that is just an excuse because I don’t want to admit that they are idiots. Idiots who strangely enough don’t want to vote for people who are convinced they are idiots.
I’m superior to someone that votes for Donald Trump, yes.
So you are all in with “us vs them” politics.
Yay my team and fuck the other guys they suck.
They lack empathy and critical thinking skills above all else. Without empathy they cannot understand how different people have different struggles or life experiences. Without critical thinking skills they think all solutions are a simple black or white option with no grey.
With those factors combined, yes I would call them idiots at a minimum if not downright evil.
So why would someone lack empathy?
Like if there is a 4 year old whose parents hit them - then they go to school and hit other kids. Is the 4 year old evil? Or were they taught that behavior?
I’m not saying that adults are 4 years old and aren’t responsible for their actions, I’m just saying that some people have VERY different opportunities than you and I have had.
People are complicated, but my (liberal) values are exactly what one would expect me to have if you look at my upbringing and education. If I had a different education and upbringing I almost certainly would have different values.
Not fun to admit, but true.
I prefer to call actions bad rather than people. People are pretty complicated, and it’s not a level playing field.
They're idiots because they've systemically allowed themselves to be taken advantage of while refusing to ever hold their leadership, representatives, or votes accountable.
They don't vote for Dems or non Republicans in general not because they're idiots but because they're Evil and want other people to suffer. And more and more think that non-christians and immigrants should be erased. Which Republican law makers will easily agree to parrot or push because they don't give a shit. It's definitely not a ridiculous idea of democratic pseudo elitism especially since the only reason to vote Dem is so those lazy bastards can prevent things from getting worse. We aren't going around acting like we're geniuses compared to Republicans. At most a remark like that would be retaliation.
We don't even need their votes we need the people that aren't voting to vote since they're easier to have an actual conversation with. If they want to be idiots let them, I don't give a shit about them.
You sound really angry.
Action taken based on anger and hatred is different than action motivated by compassion and morality.
Yeah, no stop with that. I'm not going to take this moderate kumbaya bullshit that hasn't worked and will never work. We're backsliding so far that things will be worse than the 50s in 2 months. There's no compassion left for any of these Nazis, and there never will be again. I'll gladly step over and on their corpses if that's what it takes. If their own policies leaves them dying and starving I don't give a flying fuck.
There's no morality in sitting here and taking abuse from people that have not only sold out the country but have consistently demonized, witch hunted, and are apathetic to any misfortune directly or indirectly caused. 10 years ago your argument had merit. 5 Years ago you weren't right but had the moral high ground despite it all. 2 years ago I'd have side eyed you, said that Christians/Conservatives/Religion is the worst thing that humanity has ever created and will bring the downfall of us a species, and then I'd have gotten push back but I wouldn't have been silenced. Today you've got nothing to stand on imo.
There is only anger left, as far as hatred that's come about because I'm forced to constantly consider people that have actively hated me for existing. Having to know when the genocide starts will do that. The audacity to say that I need to stop being angry, that I need to basically let it go. When I could straight up die in the next 2 years because sky fairy cultists have decided to initiate the purge is honestly ridiculous.
I’m sorry. I also feel anger and fear. I am desperately looking for ways to take action that are at least potentially effective, even if there is risk and personal cost to myself. I do not feel like a “moderate”.
I also do not want to lose sight of my own value system. Trump is full of vengeful hate. I would rather be a good person who got killed trying to make things better than be still alive but consumed with vengeful hate / hurting other people.
I am not religious - but I am a pacifist at heart. The people I admire most are folks who brought about massive change through non violent means - not people who won wars.
And honestly even if the political stuff all suddenly became ok (it won’t) the billions of people who will die from climate change is inevitable- so that gives me some perspective. Like we are ALL going to die. What is the best I can do with the time I have?
I do not have answers. Maybe - as you suggest - everything I do will be ineffective. I share your fear and dread, but if I can’t continue to value love over hate then I have already lost.
Yeah no, I'm apathetic usually because I know I'd become really unhinged. But when the time comes I'm fighting to the death, I'd be pissed to die without taking anyone down with me. I'm not letting them take me away so the last bit of my life is slow torture or worse some fucked up torture porn. I'm not letting go of my anger because I'd stop fighting and just ignore it everything. If I survived off of that? Off of never fighting? I'd never be able to look at my reflection again.
I'm not saying I need to be uncontrolled with my anger, but I'm going to act with it as my fuel.
Death from climate change is still fixable probably, and even if it's not we can at least kill these billionaires and old politicians that have caused it. so they don't get to hang out as the rest of us slowly die.
If anything they’re being too nice with their description.
Honestly? Trump is the only reason I even vote Democrat at all. Democrats spent too many years telling me I’m “toxic” and “privileged”, wagging their finger at me for stupid shit like using the word "lame"(apparently it's "ableist" to say that nowadays) and treating me as if I’m a problem to be dealt with rather than a human being, for me to trust Democrats.
You can go ahead give "not being nice" a try if you want, but that's only going to make people like me feel more unwelcome among Democrats than we already do - And you can insult me or yell at me for saying that if you want, and I'll just grit my teeth and bear it and vote Democrat anyways in 2026 because you're the "lesser of two evils"... But just know that there are DEFINITELY other voters out there who will be driven right away by that type of approach.
Oh my Goddess, "toxic" and "privileged" tf? That's what has you rubbed the wrong way? PC culture? lmao that isn't even a party thing I don't recall anyone running on that promising to police words. That is culture war propaganda. Moderates sure as hell don't care. What that is the result of progressives getting a voice and enough power to actually remove people that are assholes when 15+ years ago they'd have grimace until someone said a slur and then it was 50/50 if it wasn't the n-word. That gateway Nazi apologist speech that comes from either being out of touch, just a bit too racist, terminally online, privileged (and you can be privileged in some ways and absolutely fucked in others), an asshole that's smart enough to toe the line or some flavor of idiot.
Getting so bent out of shape because the equivalent of a grammar Nazi spoke to you online about something that you probably didn't consider is the biggest crybaby bullshit I've ever heard. That's not "the party" and if it was Whenever Dems were in power you'd see much stronger political action to defend handicapped individuals. Dems are a mix of lukewarm assholes that don't hate other people enough to want to ruin their lives for no reason. So acting like saying something offensive, when if you consider any context there's a reason why insults are insulting, and then having someone frown at you is like being crucified is completely a problem. It cannot be solved except by touching grass.
You are acting like you're being persecuted, when it's literally words from someone and their words aren't being parroted by legislators, they aren't creating a movement to imprison and then pass you around like a sex object. They're not trying to murder you in the streets or straight up ban your healthcare. You're acting like you have some moral high ground when you want to say slurs 💀. And go ahead bruh say lame say whatever you want. Do you know how many times I get corrected for saying shit ? That you've connected that to Dems because progressives literally can't make their own party because they hate rich people is hilarious.
You keep saying "people like me" while tiptoeing around what the hell you're talking about so I'm just going to assume you're talking about incels. PC culture isn't why incels don't vote Dem. It's because the right hates women as much as they do and isn't afraid to show it. It's because they're racist and they know who exactly if going to be racist right along with them. It's because they're -phobic think of anything that's not Evangelical Christian and Republicans despise it right next to them.
If you're an incel but you understand that Trump and every Republican enabling him is going to destroy the US. Congrats. But blaming random people not wanting to be insulted by low grade Nazis for Dem polling results is completely out of touch with reality.
I'd also mention that the Dems are profoundly unpopular right now. I can't tell you many Trump voters I've talked to the past few weeks that have a short circuit when I tell them that I hate the Dems too, probably more than they do. Many Trump voters (and non-voters for that matter) are as Anti-Dem as they are Pro-Trump, if not moreso.
I'm not sure how to convince these people to vote for a Democrat in the short term. Even if in the long term the goal is a new party or a radical restructuring of the current one.
The party needs to go to win.
Good comment.