Musk's Starlink backtracks and says it will comply with judge's order to block X in Brazil
Musk's Starlink backtracks and says it will comply with judge's order to block X in Brazil
Elon Musk’s satellite-based internet service provider Starlink has backtracked and announced it will comply with a Brazilian Supreme Court justice’s order to block the billionaire’s social media platform, X.
SAO PAULO (AP) — Elon Musk’s satellite-based internet service provider Starlink backtracked Tuesday and said it will comply with a Brazilian Supreme Court justice’s order to block the billionaire’s social media platform, X.
Starlink said in a statement posted on X that it will heed Justice Alexandre de Moraes’ order despite him having frozen the company’s assets. Previously, it informally told the telecommunications regulator that it would not comply until de Moraes reversed course.
“Regardless of the illegal treatment of Starlink in freezing our assets, we are complying with the order to block access to X in Brazil,” the company statement said. “We continue to pursue all legal avenues, as are others who agree that @alexandre’s recent order violate the Brazilian constitution.”
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The one time I’ll side with musk: it’s in the fucking sky! You can’t block it! It’s not anyone’s jurisdiction.
What a dumb take. They are partaking in the Brazilian economy, are they not? They are accepting payment from Brazilians, providing them with telecommunication services. Distributing terminals. Do you think telecom operators should just have the option to completely ignore the local laws if one aspect of their business crosses an international border?
In the case of providing unblocked internet to the masses? Yes. No government has the right to cut people off from news they aren’t able to suppress.
Do you think a government should have the right to block its citizens from information? This isn’t China we’re talking about, although at this rate there will be a Great Firewall of Brazil in no time.
The government absolutely has the right to cut people off of certain information. If you disagree, try to share some classified secrets, or some child porn and see how well it goes down. The disagreement here is on where the line is drawn on what information falls under that umbrella, and as a sovereign democratic nation, that is Brazil's call to make, not musk's or yours. You might have an argument if this was a dictatorship/one party state, but it is not. Still, I'm sure you were equally vocal when Musk was censoring for those.
Doesn’t sound very democratic, but that word gets misused pretty often. Agree to disagree.
Democratic doesn't mean libertarian. Democratic means that everyone gets a voice in deciding the direction things go. The people made their choice at the ballot box, and that was Lula, and Lula seems to be on board with the court's decision and isn't inclined to push legislation or executive action to change it. If people decide they don't like the decision that's been made, their government will adjust or it will be replaced by another at the ballot box. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.
“Supposed to work”
You’re correct—but…
Sure, it's not as neat and clean as that and I acknowledge that, but at the end of the day, a tautological approach to either free speech or censorship is detrimental in either direction. Worries about censorship going too far ARE justified, but there ARE situations where it is necessary, and more exacting and precise public discussions about and decisions on what is fair game for censorship and what isn't is the solution, not the understandably visceral reaction to censorship in general.
If there are concerns about the speech that is being used on a network, then the government should find the person talking and ask them to stop. They should not be able to take away everyone’s voice because a select few are abusing it
...which is a dangerous violation of the freedom of privacy and has resulted in the imprisonment of government critics in many countries like Saudi Arabia, where X has happily given user identifying information on request.
Also, nobody's voice is taken away. The government isn't making people stop talking. The originally requested deplatformed users were more than welcome to go to another platform. And the shutting down of X in general? They've shut down a platform that was blatantly and flagrantly violating the law. There are hundreds of others platforms to choose from. Heck, you can still go outside, go to the park, and yell. Always could. Do not conflate freedom of speech with the entitlement to a particular audience.
"Your rights stop were other people's rights start" is Democracy.
The concept you have in mind were some people's rights are endless and unhindered by other people's rights - in other words, are supreme - is called Authoritarianism.
Authoritarianism is telling me I can’t go to a website.
-- Lenin, State and Revolution
Can’t sell me on communism. Socialism, yes. Maybe if there were actual examples of communism ever working I’d be more open to it.
I agree. The government should make it illegal for the people to use, and enforce that law.
Sounds familiar?
Yep. They can go door to door and put people in jail. See how long that works out for that government.
But there should be an internet that operates in a space that cannot be blocked by a government. That prevents authoritarian control of communications they deem to be against their government.
Sound familiar?
Sorry... you think the democratic thing would be to legalize child porn?
If the internet is being used to distribute child porn would you ban the internet?
You can’t just keep banning everything that is used to commit a crime, because criminals will find a way to use everything to commit crimes.
Yeah, that telegram porn accusation is pretty disappointing, but let’s not pretend for a moment that any government actually gives a shit about it. It’s being used to have conversations they can’t see, and that’s why they are using child porn—the silver bullet—to take them down.
If the internet is being used to distribute child porn would you ban the internet?
You would ban the site, and any company refusing to ban the site (FREE SPEECH!!!!!) would then also be banned.
But that doesn’t fix the issue. They switch sites. You have to ban the internet.
But that doesn’t fix the issue. They switch sites. You have to ban the internet.
And yet, somehow, governments do manage to block it without banning the internet. It's a miracle! Governments must be magic!
isp’s
and even governmentsshould not be in charge of censoring content. child porn and state secrets and even twitter can be illegal without forcing an isp to censor peoples internet. for years I've seen lemmy and reddit fight for net neutrality and common carrier status, but as soon as elon is involved the hate boner takes over. lemmy is so weird.How exactly do you take down child porn without censoring it?
you deal with the people doing it and not with the people who control the pipes.
edit. I see the part of my comment that was confusing and I edited it without removing it. i still have more nuance to that part of the statement but its more than I'm willing to type and just muddys my point.
Again, how do you take down the child porn without the ISP helping?
And if the people doing it are from another country?
I really don’t understand what Yall are talking about. ISPs don’t host childporn. In fact they host nothing, and should not be responsable or even aware of what goes through their pipes. It should be illegal for them to snoop. Starlink is an isp. Even if starlink starts blocking x, or anything else, which they shouldn’t be able to, people can vpn around that. People shouldn’t have to though. This is a net neutrality issue. ISPs shouldn’t be allowed to block or alter or selectively slow or disable content on the net.
providing unblocked internet to the masses
Ask Ukraine about that supposedly unblocked access.
But that's okay because Elon decided he was stopping Ukraine from being defeated by... sinking all of Russia's ships.
I see this and say that Elon is a cunt. He should not have done this. It should NEVER be shut down and NEVER NOT be available.
Had blocking news and access to information been in the cards, as you describe, there would be another discussion. This is not it. The closest this comes is to block a linkaggregator. One that has been deemed to violate the laws in its area of business and being reluctant to take steps to rectify the situation.
This being the supreme court doing it does bring up the question of democratic decision making, which famiously has been proven by other countries recently. Although they also gave their president the power to remove themselves from office, if I've understood that particular debacle correctly.
That isn't what is happening here. To do that the government of Brazil would have to block all internet providers to keep them from accessing need and information
Twitter isn't news. Just rumors and mostly useless.
Is anything news anymore? It all seems like a bunch of speculation and rumors. Lots of “something could happen!” Don’t get me started on breakthrough scientific advancements. 🤪
The thing is, if it weren’t for Twitter, and other similar networks, things like Gaza would be squashed by the press.
Twitter is not a god given right.
I agree. The government should make it illegal for the people to use, and enforce that law. The sky internet is available to all.
it’s in the fucking sky! You can’t block it! It’s not anyone’s jurisdiction.
You would find that all countries' telecom and aerospace authorities disagree with this argument
A country's airspace does not extend into space. A nation's sovereignty over its airspace typically ends at the point where outer space begins, but there is no universally agreed-upon boundary between airspace and outer space.
Most commonly, the boundary is considered to be at the Kármán line, which is located at an altitude of 100 kilometers (62 miles) above sea level. Everything below this is generally considered sovereign airspace, while everything above it is considered international space, not subject to any one country's control.
🏅
Congrats, here's a pedant pendant
It’s not pedantic to educate people on the Kármán line. Otherwise they would say inaccurate things like “everything above them is theirs, forever” which is obviously not true.
I'm pretty sure whoever stands directly under the moon owns it
Gotta put a flag on it.
Things that are in the sky:
✅️ satellites
❌️ users
❌️ employees
❌️ company
❌️ offices
❌️ lawyers
❌️ money
Because, starlink and their investors probably want users in Brazil to be able to pay them for using the service. And, you know without the government's support that would likely become a problem.
I bet the investors were also worried other governments would notice this product as explicitly undermining their sovereignty. I'm sure that goes over well with regulatory agencies all over.
I’m sure they would change their mind if there were more taxes
No problem, Elon can eat his own Doge food.
You decided to shoot your shot at siding with Musk and came up with this? It's underwhelming.
I’m not siding with musk. I’m siding with a sky internet that doesn’t have to block something because one specific government decides that SOME information isn’t legal for its people. It’s the responsibility of the company to ensure it citizens aren’t using that sky Internet making satellite dishes illegal or something like that.
It’s disappointing musk is involved with both companies. Although he has destroyed Twitter, it is still used by many people to Share information.
It's about Twitter refusing to comply with a law similar to thousands of other laws they comply with around the world.
In my opinion, it's because of Lula. Musk has no qualms with abiding the laws of right-wing dictators.
Well, yes, Elon is a fucker. Fine people for using Twitter, but they don’t have the right to make an isp, that can operate in space, ban anything.
This, of course, is my opinion. take it or leave it, I don’t care.