'We Are Witnessing a New Brain Drain' as Scientists Flee America for France
'We Are Witnessing a New Brain Drain' as Scientists Flee America for France
A French university says it's providing safe harbor to American scientists from Yale, Stanford, NASA, and the NIH.
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I'm doing my part fleeing to Sweden, granted I'm a programmer and game dev so not a scientist. I'm done letting the US profit off my skills though
Remember that your last place of residence in the US determines your voting residence while living abroad. If possible, move to a swing state (preferably with low population, and preferably in a swing district for local elections, too) long enough to establish residency before moving abroad. Plan ahead now and maximize the impact of your vote in the long run. Also register as a republican so you can vote in republican primaries (to vote for anyone who isn’t Trump), as well as making gerrymandering harder.
Don't forget to get rid of your US citizenship or they'll still profit off your work.
i thought it was just that if the country you’re in taxed you less than what the US would, then you have to pay the difference to the IRS?
… and there’s no way in hell the US taxes less than sweden (and for anyone that hasn’t had an ice pick lobotomy that’s a good thing)
*edit: foreign tax credit
That’s correct. You’d have to be earning way, WAY over the average Swedish salary before you start owing the IRS anything. That said, I wouldn’t put it past Trump to remove the foreign earned income exclusion to coerce people into moving back to the US as part of the ”trade war” nonsense.
wow yeah i hadn’t considered that
fucking ew
How so?
If you make over X thousand dollars you have to pay taxes on it to the US even if you don't live there. The value is something like 160k.
isn’t it only the difference above what you’re taxed in your country and what the US would tax?
and since the US tax rate is one of the lowest in the world, it almost never applies
i think it’s covered by the foreign tax credit
That's true up until that X thousand mark. There is a limit on the foreign tax credit the US provides. So you pay no taxes to the US up until a certain income figure, then you pay essentially double taxes (US and where you actually live).
Don't worry you won't make 160k in Sweden :(
Does that matter if you've already cut all other ties and live somewhere else? I mean, actually paying the taxes seems like more of an active choice if you're living in a different jurisdiction, isn't it?
Extradition is a thing and no matter how much I hate what the rich have made America, I still would prefer to settle our debts. I lived there, I was raised there, I owe them my taxes like a good citizen - but now that I'm gone if I ever get close to having to pay taxes to them again I will remove my citizenship. They no longer provide me any services, in fact I'd argue they hurt me now more than they help me, and I want to become an EU citizen first and foremost.
I've always viewed countries as businesses which one should leave when their service and product is bad.
You still need a valid passport, and for becoming Citizen often further documents like birth certificates and certificates of the parents, no older than x-months and with an approval-stamp by the embassy, that these are indeed real documents.
Did you just job hunt over there and get a work visa?
I've got enough tech experience I probably could have. I'm going back to school though out of savings and going to get on a student visa
Where you going to? I'm a data engineer living in Malmö. I can help you get settled if you're in Skåne
Depending where I may get accepted, I'm likely to end up in Umeå, Boden, or Skellefteå. So just a bit further north than Malmö 😅 I appreciate the offer though
Oh that's nice; far up north. Hope you'll enjoy it up there! All the best and awesome you're choosing to come here!
Interesting. How easy is it to stay over there if you go to school? Are the student visas hard to get?
I have to line up a job before I graduate because I don't qualify for like a "just graduated give me some time to settle" visa, so that may be difficult. I don't really know if the student visa is hard to get. I need to be accepted to school first then I can use that to make my visa application, so the timing is going to be pretty rushed. I'm going to have to set up moving and living, basically be in standstill for a bit waiting to see if I can pull the trigger, then hope the visa clears
As long as you get accepted into the school, and as long as you meet the basic requirements like having enough money to support yourself and stuff there generally shouldn’t be a problem getting the visa approved. But the processing time is a killer. I’ve seen Migrationsverket take so long to process the visas that several students had to start their masters program a couple months late. The university did allow them to start late, but they really really struggled getting caught up and quite frankly the school shouldn’t have allowed it because there was really no chance of them succeeding in the program because of it (this was prior to Covid and there was no remote option for any of the coursework). Those students were really screwed over and would have been better off deferring enrollment until the next year. But the department was desperately lacking funding and needed to get as many people enrolled as possible. So they were maybe a bit dishonest about how much of a challenge it would be to get caught up.
Anyways, submit the visa application as early as you possibly can and hope the Migrationsverket processes the application quickly. Otherwise you’re at the mercy of your school and whether they’ll be willing to let you start late. Im assuming post-Covid you’d be able to attend classes remotely, so at least you wouldn’t have the issue of falling too far behind and flunking out…
Welcome home to the capital country of gaming!
Thank you! I'm so excited to make my way. Just hoping the US holds out long enough for me to make the move I'm definitely a bit scared with how fast it's all happening here
I'm in the process of getting certified to be a nurse in New Zealand. Fuck this country.
I assume you're taking a big hit salary-wise (a trade-off I would make, for the record).
Cost of living. You earn a lot less in Europe/ UK, but you pay far less to have a basic standard of living, and enjoy the safety net.
Well I'm going back to school there first to get an actual degree. After that though yeah I'm expecting to make around 1/3 what I am currently, between switching countries and going from automation engineering to level design. I think it'll be a worthwhile trade-off too
If you take into account all the things you don't have to pay, that salary is not that low
Out of interest, since moving continents is no small matter in my opinion; what makes that, and making a third in terms of salary vs the US, a worthwhile trade-off?
Lots of reasons over the years but the most immediately pressing is I'm trans so if the US starts black bagging people I'm high up there on the list
Ah gotcha yeah that makes a lot of sense! I hope that kind of bigotry dies out again soon but doesn't look like its slowing down. I hope you can feel safe and be more like your true self now.
Unfortunately I don't think it is going to die out, I think it will need to be rooted out at the cost of lives. The feeling safe part is important but I've been living my true self a while now. I make an active effort to not pass too well so that other trans people who feel they can't show themselves can see me and know there are others around. That was important for me early on so I want to provide that. Has led to some less than stellar interactions though even in Seattle...
Certain stuff, and especially rent, is a lot cheaper in Europe, though.
It was a pretty big shock for us when so many of the Ukrainian refugees that arrived during recent years came in SUVs, and they looked quite new, too. But in Ukraine, one of Europe's poorest countries by far, cars cost a lot less, too.