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vegan
- On the appropriateness of comparing violence against humans to violence against other animals
On a recently locked struggle session thread, someone made the claim that
>i love how people who hate my existence are just as evil as someone who doesn't care about eating a McRib
>meat eating is bad but I don't think im going to compare them to people who don't want me to exist
The user in question is a woman and I'm not, so I think the best way to respond to this is to discuss it in the context of an oppression that applies to me. Here's a post where I've already done so:
I think this warrants elaboration, though.
I had the misfortune of being active for many years in communities were "autistic" was considered an insult. Just as most people are offended to be compared to animals, it was seen as demeaning and shameful to be compared to called autistic - "you're like one of those inferiors!" I would be extremely suspicious of anyone who claims to be an ally to autistic people but who flies into a rage if someone dares suggest that a crime against us carries comparable moral weight to a crime against them.
Am I offended to have my struggle compared to our society's crimes our fellow creatures? Do I think it carries with it the implication that I'm beneath moral consideration? No, because I don't consider animals beneath moral consideration.
- How far back in time could you travel and remain a vegan?
Being vegan in 2023 is extremely easy, but to me that seems like a relatively new phenomena.
So if I put you in my vicious time machine and sent you until the dim past, how far back would you be vegan?
I think I could make it work for most of the 1900s. But if I was in 1500 I'd give it up.
- What the fuck happened in this thread? Maybe I shouldn't have expected much, but it seems like carnist apologia is actually getting worse in federated territory.
>Now let's get to the meat of the issue. ALL human food production causes non-zero emissions, yes even the food you eat. Yes even if you grow it yourself. According to the link you provided "meat accounts for ~60% of green house gas emissions from food production." I would say, so what? Humans need to eat food and some food production is going to emit more green house gases then other food. Trying to optimize our diets to reduce our impact on the world at the expense of enjoying that world is something no one actually wants, including you. At the end of the day everyone has to eat food. So you say "But if we just cut meat production, we would reduce the green house gases of food production by 60%!" Well in less then 80years, the population of the earth is projected to be ~11billion. That is ~50% more people and thus 50% more greenhouse gases emitted from food. So now what do you now?
>It's 2100ad, and we got rid of meat 80years ago, along with 10,000 years of human culinary culture and animal husbandry, and now we are right back where we started as far as green house gases (though probably worse because fossil fuels are still around). So what have you solved? What did destroying a huge part of the essence of human society accomplish? Hundreds and thousands of cultures were told that because burning coal and natural gas is cheaper and certian people will get rich from continuing to do that, those billions of people can't have certain kinds of food anymore. That's not a deal anyone will take, nor should they.
>The problem is that people are mean to animals? Sorry, I don't see that as a problem at all.
>We should destroy all human culinary culture and eat only what is the most efficiency use of land? Why?
>Your solution to the environmental damage caused by agriculture is "eat less food." That's not a solution at all! My solution is that amazing experiences that human culture and society can provide us is 35% of the problem so let's address the other 65% because that's the shit that doesn't make life worth living. Shipping consumer electronics 8,000 miles just to throw away within a year doesn't make anyone happy. Spending 2hours a day commuting via car to some shitty office so that you can sell more consumer junk doesn't make anyone happy. These are the things that should be changed. The fact that people eat different food then you should be celebrated. Human culture is awesome and a world where we all eat the same food because it's the most efficient isn't a world worth living in.
And the grand Reddit-tier ableist carnist finale:
> I suppose it's a deep seated psychological harm inflicted by your family when they forced you to eat dinner that one time. I hope you get the help you need, but unfortunately you will not find it here.
>Adeiu. !smuglord
This shit is dire.
- Hey everyone, im trying out an RSS feed and i need some cool vegan blogs or news sites to follow.
I would prefer if they weren't just recipes but if they do both articles and recipes I don't mind.
- Carnists will ascribe consciousness to computer programs before they ascribe it to animals
I must confess I have a personal vendetta against Yudkowsky and his cult. I studied computer science in college. As an undergrad, I worked as an AI research assistant. I develop software for a living. This is my garden the LessWrong crowd is trampling.
- "Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind then that I was not one bit better than the meanest on Earth." - Eugene V. Debs
The carnist wants to believe that they are inherently superior to any non-human animal and that this superiority gives them the right to torture and hack up their fellow creatures for their own pleasure. One reason among many that veganism tends to offend them so much is that it strikes at their ego, their belief that by virtue of their birth they are the apex of creation, and thus entitled to consume and discard those with whom they share this Earth as they please.
- What is the party line on foods that have labels that say "*may* contain milk, eggs, etc..."?
Personally I will not eat anything with the may contain label. I know this just means it is made in the same factory but I was wondering if I have just been overly cautious. What do you all think? Do you avoid stuff like that or do you think it is fine?
- Are Plant-Based Meat Substitutes Healthy?
YouTube Video
Click to view this content.
TLDR: They’re better than regular meat in nearly every metric, but beans and lentils still reign supreme.
- I guess I'm vegan now
After 5 years as a vegetarian who was willing to eat cheese so I could have a bit more food options when going out with friends, I just now realized I haven't any dairy products for like six or seven months now. Most of the local places we go to have enough decent vegan options so it doesn't feel like I'm only eating impossible burgers. Feels ffn good.
- Westerners when you give them a meal without a "protein" in it
I feel like I'm losing my mind there, a lot of people struggling to comprehend a diet where "protein" isn't a category, made from animals or plants otherwise.
Btw Impossible burger etc. are not vegan, they do animal testing: https://impossiblefoods.com/blog/the-agonizing-dilemma-of-animal-testing
CW animal testing
> But we were confronted with an agonizing dilemma: We knew from our research that heme is absolutely essential to the sensory experience meat lovers crave. Replacing animals in the diets of meat lovers would absolutely require heme. So without the rat testing, our mission and the future of billions of animals whose future depends on its success was thwarted. We chose the least objectionable of the two choices available to us. We used the minimum number of rats necessary for statistically valid results.
Yay capitalism lets us have our treats, and only a few animals had to suffer! !brainworms
- What do you do about flu shots?
I went to get my free flu shot at work today, and found out chicken eggs were involved in the process (I had to answer whether or not I was allergic to eggs before receiving the shot).
I asked if they had any alternatives, and they said they didn't because they were too expensive. I ended up getting the flu shot they offered.
Do you get the standard flu shot, or a vegan variant? How much do you pay, if the latter, and where can you find it?
- Kidney beans: $0.91/lb | Soybeans: $1.36/lb | Lentils: $1.40/lb | Ground beef: $5.08/lb
Carnists: "Poor people can't be vegan because meat substitutes are too expensive"
- Ugh, weddings
I love weddings but they are awful at catering for vegan guests. The one I'm at currently even had us select vegan on the RSVP but the only option here is a basic lettuce salad. Now I'm gonna have to leave early so I can eat something.
- Are there any food types/dishes that cannot be re-created without animal cruelty?
I am somewhat new to and bad at cooking food for myself, and I only want to cook vegan. Right now I pretty much only eat Tofu Fried Rice for every meal because that's the only thing I'm good at making. I've been looking at vegan alternatives for lots of beloved foods, and there are a lot. Basically every single popular dish I have web-searched for has had a vegan recipe for it. Thought maybe it would be faster to ask for the exceptions, because my search engine gave irrelevant results. Any info?
- Pets and vegans
I believe most vegans like animals. Yeah, yeah, carnists, we know your "with ketchup" shit, forget you!
Now what I wanted to struggle you people with...why the fuck do some vegans have pets? Animal stores are a fuck, 100 gorillion dead animals, but unironically! The so called conformation of animals, and the forced breeding, that's just dystopian! And you can adopt, not shop, but most do not! And outdoor cats, that's a catastrophe, especially with vegans! (Sorry for the levity, I know it's serious, but it is the Hexbear injoke)
They make money selling living beings, why would a vegan pay them!?
Sorry for the rant. Vegan btw, I think all animal industries should be shut down, including animal shops! Maybe assistance animals can be an exception, if they can be trained ethically!
What do you think?
- "B-but the big strong carnivores are the top of the food chain."
"What do you mean Hippos are the most dangerous animal in Africa?! My creationist first grade teacher told me that herbivores are all weak little prey animals that exist to be eaten by big strong predators!"
- I hate when I explain that I don't do something because I'm vegan and non-vegans try to tell me it's actually vegan
!debate-me-debate-me "Ackchyually backyard chicken eggs are vegan" !debate-me-debate-me "Ackchyually honey is vegan" !debate-me-debate-me "Ackchyually horseback riding is vegan"
!i-voted SHUT UP SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU'RE NOT VEGAN AND NEVER CLAIMED TO BE, STOP TELLING ME HOW TO DO VEGANISM
- I do not understand the lack of empathy that leads to this kind of shit.
This to me is an absolute nightmare scenario.
- 3 years on the site and none of y'all put me on TVP
I unironically rely on !hexbear-logo to find out about things. This shit is delicious and made my chili way better and it costs like nothing at all?
- www.counterpunch.org Vegetarian Socialists of the Anti-Nazi Resistance
I recently came across some references to a vegetarian socialist organization founded in Weimar Germany, that was active in the anti-Nazi resistance,
> by Jon Hochschartner --- > I recently came across some references to a vegetarian socialist organization founded in Weimar Germany, that was active in the anti-Nazi resistance, before it merged with the Social Democratic Party of Germany after World War II. The group was called the Internationaler Sozialistischer Kampfbund, which generally seems to be translated as the Militant Socialist International or the International Socialist Militant League. > > According to author Karl-Eugen Kurrer, writing in The History of the Theory of Structures, the ISK was founded in 1925 by Leonard Nelson, a Kantian socialist. Nelson died only a couple of years later, but the organization continued without him. Members were apparently required to be vegetarian, among other things, which no doubt limited the group’s appeal. > > If Nelson’s writing is any indication, the ISK position was motivated by anti-speciesism. “A labourer who does not just want to be a ‘prevented capitalist’ and who is thus serious about the fight against all exploitation, does not bow to the nefarious habit of exploiting harmless animals and does not take part in the everyday murder of millions of animals,” he is quoted as having said in Saskia Stucki’s One Rights. > > In his book The German Workers and the Nazis, Francis Ludwig Carsten wrote the ISK maintained five vegetarian restaurants. “In July 1933 a meeting of the local leaders held in Saarbrücken adopted guiding lines for underground work based on a long perspective and intensive training of the members,” the historian said. “Groups of five were to be organized with the ISK as the core so new members could be recruited.” > > During this period, the organization’s main focus was on trade union activity, a strategy supported by the International Transportworkers Federation, according to Carsten. The ITF smuggled a publication into the country which the ISK distributed. “For years they conducted effective underground propaganda, and in spite of all Gestapo efforts, spies were unable to penetrate the small groups,” the historian said. > > This changed in late 1937, by which time the Gestapo had appointed a special section to deal with the ISK. “During the following months about 100 people were arrested in many parts of Germany and many of the groups were virtually liquidated, in towns as far as Augsburg and Frankfurt in the south and Bremen, Hamburg and Hanover in the north,” Carsten wrote in the aforementioned text. > > Some exiled ISK leaders sought to reconnect with what was left of their organization during World War II. Anne Kappius traveled to Bremen in 1943, Carsten notes, while a less fortunate ISK member was killed crossing the German frontier. Jupp Kappius parachuted into the country in 1944 to make contact with members of the group who had been released from prison. > > Following the Nazi’s defeat, the ISK was absorbed into the refounded Social Democratic Party of Germany. According to Carsten, some members of the vegetarian group played a prominent part in the larger organization. I’d love to learn more about the ISK. It seems like a promising research subject for someone fluent in German, with an interest in socialism and animal rights. --- > Jon Hochschartner is the author of a number of books about animal-rights history, including The Animals’ Freedom Fighter, Ingrid Newkirk, and Puppy Killer, Leave Town. He blogs at SlaughterFreeAmerica.Substack.com. >
- Accidentally ate dairy cheese pizza and my tummy is feeling it almost immediately
Ouchie my tum and my ethics
Anybody have any recent accidental non-vegan food? Do you bother to feel bad or do you just say "mistake's a mistake"?
- streamable.com Classic Vegan Cocktails: the Casino
Watch "Classic Vegan Cocktails: the Casino" on Streamable.
!b12
- Average Hexbear vegan being accosted in a diner
YouTube Video
Click to view this content.
i feel like someone did this joke before, ah well !im-vegan btw
- How do you spot an obnoxious debatebro antivegan on the federated sites? Don't worry, they'll announce themselves.hexbear.net What is a hobby you enjoy, but seems too quirky or obscure to bring up in most conversations? - Hexbear
Mine would be creating pen and paper ciphers for my made up secret communication needs.
That crybully spam of "remember the human" was especially slimy. Fucking treatbrained crybully.
- Egg alternatives?
Good morning folks, simple question for you. What sorts of egg alternatives exist out there? I'm specifically looking for something that I can make an omelette-like type of food with. Something that replicates the egg taste and texture as closely as possible.
I've been trying really hard to stick to fully plant based diet. Haven't had any dairy in weeks or eggs in months. Years since I last ate meat. But lately I've been having weird cravings for omelettes because I used to eat one for breakfast every morning.
Thank you !avoheart
- How do I prepare pre-marinated tofu?
hello cool people. i am new to cooking tofu and bought some pre-marinated teriyaki tofu that i want to try instead of the usual extra firm stuff. does my usual strat of freezing and then pressing water out also apply to this
- What vegan food should I take to my family's potluck that won't start a conversation?
Like something they'll be equally happy to eat that isn't weird to them. Ideally I'll order some food on the way, it's outside most people are ordering food to share. I live in a city, all cuisines are on the table.
I'm thinking maybe (non-ghee) Indian, but honestly I really feel like there's options that I'm totally overlooking.
I do have time to prepare food, but I'd really rather ride my bicycle than drive.
Any ideas?
- Right-wing vegan, an oxymoron?
Maybe this should be elementary: no, there are no right-wing vegans. But at least Lifting Vegan Logic has said that he is neither left, or right. Usually I would say it means he is right-wing, so I am wrong?
- ‘Age Is Not A Limit’: Vegan Athlete, 66, Secures 1st Place In 48-Hour Ultramarathonplantbasednews.org 'Age Is Not A Limit': Vegan Athlete, 66, Secures 1st Place In 48-Hour Ultramarathon
Following another ultramarathon win, athlete Trishul Cherns thanked his vegan diet for his ongoing triumphs in the running and sporting world
- Anyone else have nightmares about eating meat?
Happens to me at least once a week. I'll dream I get some horrible irresistible craving and end up eating a meatball sandwich or something. Makes me feel like shit every time.
- Being vegan just makes you better than most people
"you know how you only use 10% of your brain? thats because the other 90% is filled with curds and whey"