archomrade [he/him] @ archomrade @midwest.social

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2 yr. ago

Interestingly enough, I think a better example is Jewish people being accused of being fake/bad jews for being insufficiently supportive of the Israeli state, since the reason why people here, specifically doubt the trans makeup of hexbear is their insufficient support to western democracy. People find it uncomfortable to consider a trans individual might grand critical support to a state who has had reactionary trans-exclusionary policy, and so they cast doubt on the legitimacy of that membership.

Having a disagreement with a hexbear about politics is one thing, but projecting that disagreement onto their personal identity is explicitly bigoted. There isn't any reason to doubt the trans demographic makeup of a community that was explicitly created as a trans-inclusionary leftist community.

The burden of proof isn’t on the person saying they don’t think the number is realistic, it’s on the person who pulled a percentage out of their ass lol

"I don't believe you're trans, because trans people are exceedingly rare, and the burden of proof is on you for having pulled your self-identity out of your ass lmao"

It's incredibly transphobic to assume those who self-report to be in a targeted minority are lying for some rhetorical benefit. Nobody wants to be subject to the harassment that comes with being gender non-binary, not even to score some hypothetical internet points.

Not by default, by explicitly dismissing the minority status of a majority-trans community simply because they don't fit their expectation of a trans person.

If that's the dumbest thing you've read online I have some really bad news for you.

Unless you count the fact that trans people make up an incredibly small percentage of the population overall.

Underrepresented minorities disproportionately join minority-centric social groups, that isn't surprising.

Nor does saying 'i don't believe it' make that doubt any more legitimate and any less motivated by transphobic prejudice.

f I did a survey and the results were faulty about the amount of Black people, would it be racist to say the numbers seem off?

If you had no material reason to doubt those numbers and it was a community that was built by and for black people and you had a motivation to be blind to their minority status then.... yea, it would be racist to say "I don't believe it"

People who frequent MoG don't want to acknowledge the trans and minority makeup of hexbear because that conflicts with their self-image of being trans allies... It has nothing to do with any factual basis of doubt of that demographic.

But you must have some way of discerning truth on the internet one way or the other, otherwise nothing could ever be true

There's no actual reason to cast doubt on that makeup except for whatever prejudices you have against that community, and any amount of actual investigation would dispel those doubts.

Except there's no factual reason to doubt that demographic except for whatever prejudices you have against them

Their existence really has nothing to do with your opinions about them, and thinking otherwise is what makes it transphobic.

You asked how I knew he had that information and dismissed it, and I pointed out he was repeating the information and dismissing it lmao

He knew 50% was the figure in question and he said 'i don't believe anything that comes out of hexbear'. Stands to reason he very well did have that information and simply dismissed it for having come from hexbear.

The resulting error of that selection bias decreases as the sample rate increases - that's part of the reason why sample rates are a valuable indicator of survey accuracy

But having that discussion is qualitatively different than dismissing whatever assumptions brought by it by saying 'I don't believe it'.

I'll just repeat what I said elsewhere:

Saying “I don’t believe this figure” isn’t born out of a reaction to that information, it’s simply an expression of disbelief that there could possibly be that many trans communists in a community you personally dislike.

Not if there's actual evidence to the contrary

that is a valid viewpoint for someone to hold without telling anyone who identifies specifically as trans that they are wrong about their gender.

It's not a matter of opinion - either you're interpreting that demographic survey and excluding the 10% who are not sure if they are trans or not, or you're questioning the accuracy of the poll based on response bias or some other reason you're not mentioning. Saying "I don't believe this figure" isn't born out of a reaction to that information, it's simply an expression of disbelief that there could possibly be that many trans communists in a community you personally dislike.

Further, 598 is not 42% of “over 1,400”.

Ok.... so what would you say is a reasonable estimate, then? 40%? 35%? Those are still very high sample rates

conducted a poll casually while managing to get a 100% participation rate

It's been a while since i've taken Statistics but i'm pretty sure 40% participation is exceptionally high for a demographic poll.

less than half indicated that they were definitively not cisgender

It is just as accurate to say that less than half indicated that they definitively are cisgender - it depends on if you include questioning individuals is a part of the culturally dominant majority cisgender group, or if you view the questioning of your socially-reinforced gender as a departure from the norm.

Hexbear, per prolewiki has “over 1,400 monthly users”.

A sample group of 42% in any survey would be considered a high-quality representation, even when including the likelihood of response bias. But, then again, there's still even less evidence for assuming it's inaccurate simply because trans and communist identities are extremely uncommon in the general population - especially when hexbear is explicitly a trans-friendly leftist space.

Hexbear existed as its own thing long before there were any lib instances to troll. It's far more likely that their ideological framework is earnest and is simply incompatible with your own.

They conduct their own demographic polling - unless you believe their users are lying about their identity there is more demographic evidence in support of that figure than there is evidence to the contrary.

Denying the self-reported identity of a marginalized person is absolutely bigoted, and those demographics come directly from self-reported polling data.

Unless you are simply unaware that they conduct their own demographic polling, dismissing those demographics as 'not real' is the same thing as accusing those users of lying about being trans