arbilp3 @ arbilp3 @aussie.zone

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Well done Jad Salamah!

Could you cross-post this to Aussie Enviro please? We've been discussing night sky issues.

Could you cross-post this on AussieEnviro please. Important issue.

Seems we've become a Mini-me with a veneer of civility.

From the creek to the brine, Palestine, free and fine. Do you reckon they'd censor this too?

Thank you. Signed.

😮 🥸 🤣

Great news!

Could you cross post this great contribution with Aussie Enviro please?

Btw, this website might come in handy at some point: https://www.aussiebee.com.au/

Theres so many options to fix the current, artificially created crisis.> I agree with you.

As to your question re housing and the effect of oil price rising, I think you answered it when you mentioned supply chains. Imo, construction, like all business, will be affected by a rise in petrol costs e.g. obtaining materials, tools, machinery from overseas, local travel and freight costs. All will be passed on to buyers so I imagine that it will become even more expensive to buy a new home unless govt helps out. In addition, the cost of kitting out a home will be more expensive as all appliances, imported furniture and miscellaneous items will also rise in price. These old men and their wars and power mongering are hurting young people in so many ways. No wonder so many don't want to have children.

Here is the reply I got from GetUp:

It’s true that councillors can’t simply cancel a development because of a petition. Planning decisions still have to go through a formal approval process and be assessed against planning rules.

But that doesn’t mean petitions are useless.

What petitions do is show the scale of community concern before and during that process. When councillors, planners and governments see that thousands of people are paying attention, it often leads to much closer scrutiny of a proposal and can influence how decisions are made, what conditions are applied, or whether projects move forward at all.

Community pressure has played a role in many planning debates in Australia. Petitions are one way people can make sure their voices are part of that conversation.

So the honest answer is: a petition won’t decide the project on its own, but it helps demonstrate that the community cares and wants decision-makers to take a careful look. We're also considering delivering the petition directly to the mayor – we've got over 15,000 signatures already and climbing, we're sure this will show the community doesn't want the tower to go ahead.

Ok, we'll just have to stick to our points of view. Just wanted to add that Change.org gets a lot of air play because it is the largest petition platform, to my knowledge, in the English-speaking world. Also that petitions can be very useful and effective as part of broader campaigns.

I learnt a lot myself as I was responding to you, so thank you for the exchange.

Here's a couple of items to broaden perspective that show why petitions are useful and have broader implications that are important for democracies. https://theconversation.com/not-another-online-petition-but-heres-why-you-should-think-before-deleting-it-110029 https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/lifematters/from-slacktivism-to-real-change-are-petitions-still-effective-/105805264

Over the years I have signed many petitions. Positive outcomes have been because petitions are mostly part of a multi-pronged 'campaign'. One example is the Free Julian Assange petition on your pet peeve, Change.org. I signed the original petition plus just about every other online means of support I could. Julian was finally brought back. I am sure the original petition was not the cause alone but it helped to make the issue broadly dispersed and became an integral part of the campaign as the number of signatories went from tens, to thousands to nearly 800,000. Another is https://www.change.org/p/introduce-arnie-s-law-stronger-penalties-for-crimes-against-pets which you can read for yourself is now closer to being tabled in the Qld Parliament as the petition initiators have been hard at work advocating to MPs.

You seem to want a very mechanical cause and effect. Nothing stands alone in relation to the ways we can benefit our society. It's all process and persistence. Petitions do not solve a problem on their own but are a straightforward tool that can be used to engage people in issues they care about but don't know how to improve on their own. They are also a straightforward way for authorities and advocacy groups to get an idea of what people think. Why do you think our govts are so poll-driven? What people are thinking does matter. Some petitions will never make a difference but some most certainly do.

That's ok, I'm just giving an alternate point of view. You don't have to be convinced.

By calling the SMH article a puff piece and only picking the outcome of one petition and disregarding the other 13 you do not make much of a case for your argument, however.

As to your last point, which is important, I'll get back to you. I've made an enquiry because I also want more clarification. Thank you for that.

I forgot to add that environment and other activist organisations find that if their petitions to government are well supported by the general public it gives them more ammo to advocate for causes.

You make very valid points but I don't think they are the end of the story. Petitions form a number of functions (this list is not comprehensive). They:

• can and have influenced outcomes. The following is a fairly old article but it gives you an idea: https://www.smh.com.au/national/people-power-14-online-petitions-that-changed-australia-in-2015-20151222-gltgyb.html
• bring awareness about issues to people and communities who may not have been aware previously
• give people the opportunity to become involved, even if at arm's length. There is a great deal of apathy in Australia. People who don't even sign petitions are hardly likely to get really active as you indicate. People who are active will be the first to sign and share petitions for the issues they care about. I say this because I know such people
• give politicians and planners a sense of where people are at and what sort of issues they feel strongly about.
• may be used by politicians (cynically or not) to identify sectors of the population to address
• are used by social historians to map community development and salient issues over time (see for example, https://www.aspg.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Petitions-a-voice.pdf)

Finally, the above petition is for all Australians to sign, not just Gold Coast locals. It is very unlikely that someone living in Perth would contact their MP or one covering the Gold Coast to follow the situation. I am one of those people who write individual letters to politicians about issues. More often than not, they fob you off with unctuous polliespeak, so, that IS a waste of time.

To sign a petition is to put a small amount of energy into a significant cause (usually) and join others rather than not put in energy at all and sit on the side lines feeling helpless, alone and grumbling.

I disagree with you. Not all get their requests met, but many do. Numbers mean votes so a point comes when local politicians see their position at risk when there are very large numbers of people against what they are pushing. Mind you, being Qld, it's harder to say.

Sorry if it sounded like I'm blaming refugees. I agree with everything you say. But if incoming numbers increase significantly (and we should definitely welcome them as our govt has sat by as the situation has become drastic in some parts of the ME) and we are still not catching up with the housing construction (and the expense to build growing because of oil price volatility), the problem will become worse. Imo, our govt should increase support for well-made prefabricated homes which are now much better quality than they used to be and perhaps even start a govt-owned prefabrication enterprise for social and affordable housing at scale, which would also provide manufacturing and related jobs.

Perhaps our govt and others have stopped believing and holding to the rules-based order a long time ago. Give lip-service, yes. Do what is right by international and humanitarian law, no.

You may be interested in this video of an interview with an Iranian academic educated in the West and ex-Israeli anti-Zionist writer and activist about the current situation (well, one day ago): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcFD_9A_5Dg

The same sort of fear is present in the regional area where I live, where there seems to be a mind virus against renewable energy.