If the keyboard would be sitting on your office desk anyway, you could get yourself an Ergodox/Redox/ErgoDash and not worry about shedding keys for sake of portability.
People and companies occasionally come back to the idea - there's the recent Flux, Elgato's macropad (and its numerous imitators), and who was it that was showing off a keyboard with mini-screens while using Dota 2 skill icons as an example
Another way to tackle this problem would be to have a little projector (maybe laser, ideally not) next to the keyboard to shine the labels onto the keys
The keyboard I've used for longest was K860 (which still works fine after 3 years and which I still like, though it is rather wide), and as for future works I'd like something between the current two keyboards being Sofle Choc (rotary encoders next to QWERTY B/N) and Redox (thumb cluster layout) with a couple tweaks to allow for closer-angled placement of the halves.
However, no such keyboard seems to currently exist, so I'd have to either find the time to design and build one myself, or commission someone to do that for me.
I recently remembered about it and it seems like the keyboard has been re-scheduled from May 2024 to August 2024 to (now) February 2025, so I think you'd be better off getting something else and then ordering it if/when it releases (and if it doesn't turn out to be a disaster).
If you'd like an extra-wide keyboard, there's timception's Drift (or less-wide Pinky4, ErgoArrows, etc.)
If you'd like pointing devices, there are some designs with various placements.
I think that did materialize, but was rather underwhelming?
As far as options for replicating the layout go, I think ErgoArrows would be the closest - you can get it as a kit.
If it's more about the middle keys than the a bunch extra keys on the bottom, there are many keyboards like that - Ergodox/derivatives, Kinesis Advantage360, Moonlander, Redox, Dygma Defy, and Keyboardio Model 100 all have 2-3 keys in the middle and can be bought pre-built. ErgoDash, Ergo68, and Pinky4 can be bought as a kit.
"Key spacing" is usually the term.
I think Dao Choc BLE, city42, or the various Hillside keyboards would be the closest that you can get pre-built.
- You can maintain a reasonably "normal" QWERTY layout if you regularly work with a bunch of different keyboards - e.g. mine looks like this on Sofle, and on Moonlander you could spread
-_
,=+
, and brackets across some of those inner keys for convenience. I occasionally press Caps Lock instead of LShift on row-staggered keyboards, but that is a price that I am willing to pay - same-row Ctrl+Z/X/C/V shortcuts just feel too good. The other option is to remap the normal keyboard
1. You can maintain a reasonably "normal" QWERTY layout if you regularly work with a bunch of different keyboards - e.g. mine looks like this on Sofle, and on Moonlander you could spread -_
, =+
, and brackets across some of those inner keys for added convenience (perhaps at a price of sometimes typing [
instead of a backslash).
I occasionally press Caps Lock instead of LShift on row-staggered keyboards, but that is a price that I am willing to pay - same-row Ctrl+Z/X/C/V shortcuts just feel too good.
The other option is to remap the laptop keyboard's layout to be more like your Moonlander layout using system-level tricks (like registry/SharpKeys on Windows).
Depends on where you are in the world - e.g. here in Ukraine you can occasionally see an ergonomic keyboard or two among the office keyboards in electronics stores.
From my own experience (having replaced my Sculpt with K860 when it came out) I'll say that it feels pretty similar, but keys take slightly less force to actuate. Supposedly Microsoft Surface Ergonomic Keyboard is also similar, but I haven't had a chance to try out that one.
Primary candidates are Perixx' keyboards (335BR is the mechanical contender, but they have a bunch of cheap membrane Sculpt-likes), Logitech K860 (if you're OK with a full-sized keyboard, it's pretty solid), or one of a few two-part options - I made a list when picking mine.
![the background blur](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/85a71d10-b0e2-47a1-8d40-cd6a01d998f5.png?thumbnail=256&format=webp)
![](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/85a71d10-b0e2-47a1-8d40-cd6a01d998f5.png?thumbnail=1024&format=webp)
GitHub: https://yal-tools.github.io/ergo-keyboards/
It is not as big as some existing collections, however:
- I have filled out a bunch of metadata for the keyboards, such as switch profile and spacing, number/types of encoders, and information about the common and less-common input devices
- By limiting this to column-staggered and ortholinear keyboards only, it is possible to do a few more useful things, such as filtering based on column/row count (as if key count means much on smaller keyboards), key clusters, pinky stagger, or splay.
- Apart of filtering, you can sort the keyboards, toggle visibility of columns (to only see what you care about), and generally sift through keyboards pretty quickly.
A few more pictures:
! Finding yourself some little keyboards with Choc/GLP switches
! Taking a peek at the rarer 7+ column keyboards
All in all, I hope that this will make it easier to answer "is there a keyboard that does X" type of questions
I'm guessing that you have -_
key in top-right, =+
where [{
would normally be, and three of the arrows on the thumb row? I toyed with having 4 arrows on the thumb row for a bit and currently checking on having a navigation toggle layer that only swaps the letter keys on the right half.
If you are comfortable with building your own, there's a good number of keyboards in this form factor - I made a list recently. There are similar-shaped keyboards with a slightly different key distribution like Egg58 or Cantaloupe, keyboards with slightly more keys like Redox and other ErgoDox derivatives, keyboards with asymmetrical clusters on the right like Breeze or ErgoNICE, 4x7 keyboards like Ergoinu, Interphase, or Kapl, and even a 4x8 Drift...
I've seen that there was a tiny trackball mod for Sofle, but cannot easily tell if any changes are necessary to get this working with Choc.
Myself I'd probably want a bigger trackball like fingerpunch's Faux Fox / Rock On builds have it.
It's certainly not wood or steel, but it's doing okay - the only time when you can feel that it's not an extra-sturdy material is when pressing on the encoders, and that might be addressable by adding an extra pair of rubber feet next to these.
![the background blur](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/28cd6126-c100-4d0a-b515-42618516f6ea.jpeg?thumbnail=256&format=webp)
![](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/28cd6126-c100-4d0a-b515-42618516f6ea.jpeg?thumbnail=1024&format=webp)
The two are pretty similar, but to me red pro is just about the point where I can hold the key without thinking about it, which is a good trait for modifier keys.
Originally I used numpad as a navigation block, but I've since figured out that setting right thumb row to [MO(2)←→↑↓] / [▿Home End PageUp PageDown] works well for my purposes, so now it's just chillin'.
Assembled (complete with the pleasantly smooth photopolymer SLA case) by a local company (splitted_space
on Telegram), originally with brown switches.
Thank you for your advice, and also Sofle looks neat - for a 58-key keyboard it doesn't feel like it has sacrificed too much.
Ximi looks amusing - I guess this is the point where you need 3-4 layers to make proper use of it, but two trackballs are quite a treat. I do occasionally use a trackball as a scroll wheel ball in my existing setup.
That's a neat keyboard - doesn't have arrow keys, but their upcoming Defy keyboard has a rather impressive number of side keys and thumb keys. I'll keep this in mind.
So what do people do with thumb clusters?
In my current setup, I have a little tool to have remapped RAlt act as a faux mod layer (so that I can quickly enter symbols like · — ➜ or have two-key shortcuts that don't conflict with anything), but most of the objective improvement comes from good auto-completion, snippets, and editor features (e.g. multi-cursors can be a blessing to both edit a bunch of lines at once and to create N constructs out of a list of names/signatures).
I've seen this one, but I'd need to find a local sample to verify that I can use it - per post, I have non-too-strict typing habits and I'm afraid that an ortholinear[-ish] layout will be weeks-long despair with me missing keys.
For example, I already had a habit of holding my hands at an angle prior to using split keyboards, but this also meant that I was usually pressing Y key with my left index finger, which, on Sculpt, meant that I was now either typing a T or hitting my finger on the edge of the keyboard.
Some context: I write code and play videogames, primarily on Windows and currently on a Logitech K860, which I've been thinking of replacing with something that is less wide and/or two-piece. In looking into this I have discovered that there's quite a number of keyboards that fit my criteria, so I could use some help figuring out what's more likely to be a good choice.
What do I desire:
- US-like QWERTY layout (LShift next to Z, horizontal or otherwise reasonable-sized Enter)
- TKL (or otherwise not too wide)
- Split (ideally two-part, but the classic 15(?)-degree triangle in the middle is also okay)
- Probably a normal staggered layout (I touch-type, but it's not strict home-row typing)
- Normal arrow keys (read: separate keys not requiring an Fn press/layer switch; Up-arrow being above Down-arrow)
- Home/End keys next to arrow keys, or accessible via Fn+arrow (or a couple useless keys next to arrow keys that could be remapped)
- A Delete key somewhere in that area (or another useless key that can be remapped)
- Digit keys
- A Windows/Option key
Nice to have:
- F-keys (to use for keyboard shortcuts)
- Tenting
- (detachable?) palm supports
- Wired connection or optional cable.
Things that don't mean too much:
- Lighting
- Key labels and their durability
- High-end macro recording (key codes can be remapped on PC side)
Misc:
- I've not owned enough mechanical keyboards to have a switch preference beyond "shouldn't take much force to press / shouldn't be too loud".
- I can assemble and disassemble devices, but probably wouldn't find time to solder.
- Not particularly limited in terms of budget - been a few years since I've last got a fancy keyboard.
- I'm used to low-profile keyboards, though it's more about travel time and how much the keys poke out of the keyboard than actual key cap height.
What else I've used that's worth noting:
- MSI GK-701 (non-split) Bought to see what was the fuss with Cherry MX brown switches, but couldn't get used to how tall this thing was (~4cm).
- Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop Very good keyboard layout, somewhat stiff (?) keys and clicky F-keys.
- HAVIT HV-KB390L (non-split) A pretty pleasant TKL low-profile keyboard with Kailh white switches that I used for a little while before going back to split keyboards.
- Logitech K860 Better keys than Sculpt, but full-sized.
- Perrixx/MoKo/etc. Foldable Keyboard (aka B.O.W. keyboard) It's a pocket comedy split keyboard. Not very high-quality, but beats typing on the phone, you know?
- Logitech K280e (non-split) A curious low-profile, quiet (rubber-domed?) office keyboard that I use with secondary devices.
Considerations so far
Sculpt-likes (one-piece ~75%):
- Perixx PERIDUO-606 A mouse wheel in the middle?
- Perixx PERIBOARD-613 B This one has a 4:1 Enter key. I think it's for people that like their RShift keys.
- Perixx PERIBOARD-335 (TKL) A mass-market-ish keyboard with mechanical switches? That's neat. Not hot swap, but still!
- Lenovo Go Wireless Split Apparently Lenovo made a conventional TKL split keyboard once.
- BC Split Ergonomic Seems like an almost 1:1 replica of Sculpt layout, except for distribution of F-keys. UK layout only, I think?
- X-Bows Knight Column-staggered, has a 2x2 Backspace key, and the most obnoxious website I've seen as of late.
- Truly Ergonomic 229 Mechanical Keyboard A similar design to X-Bows, but with a more symmetrical layout. -Truly Ergonomic CLEAVE A slightly different design with a handful of large keys for your thumbs.
Two-piece (pre-assembled):
- Goldtouch V2 (>75%) A seemingly normal rubber-domed keyboard.
- Kinesis Freestyle2/Pro/Edge (>75%) A similar layout. I guess this one made it big because every other split keyboard post I find includes a sponsored listing from Kinesis. And what's the difference between these? Switches, programmable buttons, and lighting?
- Matias Ergo Pro (>75%) That's a quirky layout, but technically has all the buttons.
- Cloud Nine ErgoTKL (>75%) A fairly Sculpt-like layout with a couple extra buttons.
- Core Mechanics Project: 0001 (>75%) Pretty good layout and a couple macro keys too. A clean look.
- Perixx PERIBOARD-524B (75%) A perfectly normal two-piece layout.
- Goldtouch Go!2 The wireless/scissor edition of the seemingly normal keyboard, now with a couple sacrifices and navigation keys on the left.
- R-Go Split Break This is a different kind of a compact comedy keyboard, except it's a wired PC keyboard.
Two-piece (kits):
- Mistel MD770 (75%) An (almost) perfectly normal layout that's split into two halves. 650L seems similar sans the f-key row.
- YMDK Split 64/75/84 All QMK-based I believe?
- Keychron Q11 QMK (75%-ish) Also a pretty normal layout featuring two knobs.
- Keebio collections (65%..>75%) I've not even heard of some of these switches before, but Cepstrum looks intriguing.
- Sinc R3 (>75%)
One-piece (kits):
- Keychron Q8 That's not how you curve a keyboard.
- Feker Alice 80 (65%) A very sensible layout sans the relocated Win-key.