Why don't we have one timezone covering the whole earth?
Why don't we have one timezone covering the whole earth?
And instead changing the time work and other things happens depending on where you are. Would be easier to arrange meetings across the globe. Same thing applies to summertime. You may start work earlier if you want, but dont change the clocks!
So You Want To Abolish Time Zones
In a nutshell:
Before abolishing time zones:
I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. What time is it there?
Google tells me it is currently 4:25am there.
It's probably best not to call right now.
After abolishing time zones:
I want to call my Uncle Steve in Melbourne. What time is it there?
It is 04:25 ("four twenty-five") there, same as it is here.
Does that mean I can call him?
I don't know.
It's a cool idea, but then you lose the local representation of the daylight cycle, which just complicates things again as you try to schedule things with people in other countries without knowing if it's their bedtime or not.
I play games with international friends and work with international colleagues, so I have my fair share of troubles with time zones. If anything, abolishing daylight savings worldwide would yield much better results.
On a side note, when scheduling events on Discord, I like to add in a unix timestamp that shows everybody their local time. Quite convenient!
Doing this would lose a sense of work vs home time for people. I have some coworkers on the other side of the world, I look at their time and know they shouldn't be online anymore. I tell them things like "Go be with your family" or "Must be sleepy considering how late it is for you".
It gives me a sense of humanity to know if it's 8pm their time, it's way too late for them to be working. I'm sure I could adjust if we all used UTC but it would be so stupid to change.
Also imagine hours for businesses all sounding weird as heck lol.
You'll basically have timezones either way, there's just two ways of doing it.
If we all used UTC, then businesses would need to change what time they opened depending on their location. Ex: Best Buy opening at 12 noon on the US west coast, and 3pm on the east coast. Locations inbetween would have different opening times. So we would get the noon zone, 1pm zone, 2pm zone, and 3pm zone. All nation wide businesses with standard open/close times would effectively follow the same pattern, and it would be best if they all coordinated on where those zones occured. So then we would get new timezones, they'd just be slightly different in how they functioned.
We do, it's called Universal Coordinated Time. The time is now 00:37 UTC, or 16:37 Pacific Daylight Savings Time.
People that proposes to replace local timezones with global UTC must be living in europe where it doesn't impact them much if we do abolish the timezone. Now consider people that lives in the other side of the planet. Most people are active during the day, yet for them, the day will end right in the afternoon under the new system. So you tell your friend "hey, let's meet tomorrow", then your friend would be like "do you mean this afternoon, or in the morning next day?". No way people living in the asia pacific would accept this without military intervension.
Pilots already do this. Everything in aviation is "ZULU" time. In computers, we call it UTC or +0000. It actually works really well because we cross time zones so easily.
I would totally be in favor of switching to a universal time zone. But inertia is hard to overcome. Most people don't change time zones very often as they're usually far from population centers and people know that when they take a trip, that's when the time zone will change so for most it's not a daily concern and getting used to a new time zone model would be annoying. When you tell people about the US state of Indiana, they really start to change their minds, that place is fucked up.
Hint: Reykjavik, Iceland is a major city that uses UTC always, no Daylight Savings Time there. I always keep my second time zone on my watch and phone set to that.
For synchronizing of things like work and school we'd still end up with zones all using the same local hours (the day goes from 4:00 to 4:00 to e.g.) so we'd still end up with timezones there...
All of the clocks around the world would read the same, sure, but now you have no idea what part of the day 4:00 is somewhere else. You'd end up doing almost the same math as we do now by offsetting their time from yours so you could understand it (4:00 is the same as my 13:00 for e.g. so it's one hour past noon over there) but now we lose the shared understanding of which numbers correspond to which times of day. This means you'd be having to mentally convert all their new times of day to the clock time instead of having intuitive sense of their meaning.
Instead of seeing the local time is 12:00 and immediately knowing it's noon, now you'd look up what time their day started and see how many hours it's been since then (12, so it's noon there) and that offset is how you'd need to think of it and already what clocks show now...
It would make checking the meeting time a little easier, but make scheduling it way way harder. When scheduling a meeting I want to try to make it reasonable for everyone in the meeting and without time zones I'd have to look up a unique table of when daytime is for every location. That sounds so much worse to me than having a standardized time offset where reasonable working hours are pretty consistently defined. And the main time where I need to check time zones are at scheduling time anyways. When it comes to checking the meeting time everything I use already automatically converts the time to my local time.
Humans, generally, like to be awake when the sun is visible and asleep when it isn't. The way we structure our thinking about time, morning, noon, evening, night, are based on the position of the sun.
The single time zone thing sounds appealing until Germans have to be up at 2 AM to speak with their bosses in NYC as that's a financial power center and thus gets to dictate the meeting times
Because it:
-
causes the question "What time is it there?" to be useless/unanswerable
-
necessitates significant changes to the way in which normal people talk about time
-
convolutes timetables, where present
-
means "days" are no longer the same as "days"
-
complicates both secular and religious law
-
is a staggering inconvenience for a minimum of five billion people
-
makes it near-impossible to reason about time in other parts of the world
-
does not mean everybody gets up at the same time, goes to work at the same time, or goes to bed at the same time
-
is not simpler at all
-
Because time relates to the position sun and tells us something about what period of the day it is in that timezone. Your proposal would strip off that information, which means that you would have to look up in a different system what the business hours are in another country, when it’s night, etc. That means that you’re basically reinventing timezones by putting them in a separate system, which defeats the purposes and makes it more complicated than it already is.
Sure, time differences might be a bit cumbersome, but timezones have a name and can be converted from one to another. Also, most digital calendars (for meetings, etc) have timezone support and work perfectly fine when involving people from multiple timezones. To find a good moment to meet, you will still have to keep the time difference in mind, but in the current system you can at least take it into account just by looking at the time difference.
We do (known as Zulu/Military time, Greenwich Mean Time, or Universal Time Coordinated) but it's not convenient for the average person to use locally, so almost everyone defaults to whatever their time zone is.
Fun fact: In 1793 France defined the metric time consisting in one single timezone, 10 hours per day, 100 minutes per hour and 100 seconds per minute. The people never used it and everyone forgot about it. It was later renamed decimal time
I'm a proponent of this myself. I think the big barrier to just using UTC everywhere is with the clock as a symbol: right now if you're watching a movie or a TV show and see someone's alarm going off at 6:00, you know "oh, they're a pretty early riser." If everyone used UTC, that time could be local noon, or the person could be late for work, out any number of other things.
That also applies to when people move to a new place; if I'm used to having lunch at 20:00 UTC and then move across the country, suddenly lunch is at 17:00 UTC. Symbols are really important to people, so I think these are both problematic. Meetings would be easier, but offline life would be harder.
I feel like this is something that would only benefit well-off people in the developed world at the inconvenience of less well-off people around the world.
"This would make it easier to coordinate digital meetings with my colleagues at my international corporation!" Lol
Here’s a hypothetical store in a place where, say, 9:00 is now 23:00 using global time. The store would have been open 9:00-21:00 Mon and Wed, and 10:00-22:00 on Tuesday. But with global time it would look like this:
Mon 23:00 - Tue 11:00
Wed 0:00 - 12:00
Wed 23:00 - Thu 11:00
Not to mention the general headache of having the day change over in the middle of the day every day. “Meet me tomorrow” when tomorrow starts at lunchtime.
Plus, although you’d easily be able to set up international meetings in terms of getting the time right, you will have no idea whether any given time is during work hours in the other country, or even if people would be sleeping. Instead of having time zones you could look up, we’d have to look up a reference chart for, say, when lunchtime is in a country and extrapolate from there. Or imagine visiting a country and you need to constantly use a reference guide to figure out the appropriate time for everything throughout the day.
Books that reference time would all be specific to their time “zone”.
It would make so much sense to have a universal time that everyone can refer to for that use case of wanting to schedule things. And, in fact, UTC already exists.
As much as time is a constant thorn in my side, both time and timezones are a necessary evil.
Others have outlined some of the issues regarding time zones and the abolishment of them so I won't get into that. What I will say is that time keeping systems generally don't track time in your local timezone. Technology has long since given up on local time as a measurement. Almost all system clocks for computers, phones, pretty much anything electronic, is almost always stored in UTC, or a time code based on UTC.
And I can hear it now, someone saying " but the time on my $thing is $correctlocaltime, which is not UTC"
Yep, and that's where the magic happens. While the time is stored as UTC, it's displayed as local based on your device's time zone settings. In some cases, like with cellphones, the local timezone is set by GPS. The device gets a very very general idea of where you are from GPS, and sets your timezone appropriately. Windows will do this too based on location awareness, by default. I'm sure os x also does something similar.
When the time is displayed it takes the UTC system time and filters it through the UTC offset based on your timezone, and displays local time, factoring in daylight savings, if applicable.
We've silently converted to a single unified time globally, and nobody realizes it has happened because the user interface shows you what you want to see.
We would need to know what the normal time to start work in our given region would be. Perhaps we should divide the world up into longitudinal strips to designate where and when stuff like work should start, so that everyone could be synced up. Yeah, that’s be a little weird at borders, but since everyone would be aware of the borders then they’d be aware of the differences across them.
Maybe we could also just offset their time in these zones from each other so that we could standardize the times with the approximate position of the sun! That way, you could know if a local time was meant to be during the day or at night. If we didn’t do that, you’d need to figure it out and adjust your thinking everytime you went anywhere, since “noon” would lose all meaning.
Of course, when there are advantages to having a single time be represented everywhere, maybe we could have a separate time “zone” that encompasses the entire world; and when people need it they could just reference that. Some kind of universal, coordinated time zone…
Oh look, we solved all the problems of your suggestion by re-inventing the current system. Funny, that.
EDIT: alright, without the snark, what I am saying here is: we will need time zones either way, so what’s easier to coordinate: shifting the actual clock time in each zone, or shifting every other possible schedule, every person’s perception of what happens when, with each zone change? And also, UTC or Coordinated Universal Time does provide you with a single, global, same-everywhere time to use for coordination. It’s just seen as nerdy to use it, so no one in civilian life really does. Which is why you gotta go google what time a game is releasing when it’s not in your time zone
Which is easier- looking up what time it is in Munich, or looking up what part of the day it is and the hours typically kept by people in Munich? What if you need to schedule a call with your business partners?
Do you really wanna live in the part of the world where sunrise happens at 2pm?
There are lots of negative opinions in this thread. But I think it is actually a good idea!
It makes time math a lot easier. Of course the switching cost is very high. (And probably not worth it). Much like it would be better if we counted using base 12 it is a better system once the switch would be made.
The main upside is that it is very easy to agree on times. I've had job interviews missed because time math was done wrong. They told me my local time and the interviewer their local time but they didn't match! And it isn't obvious to either party. When I see "10:00 America/Toronto, 08:00 America/San Francisco" it isn't really obvious that there was an error here unless you happen to have the offset memorized. With a global time everyone would immediately agree on a time.
One common complaint is that you can no longer use "local time" to estimate if someone is available. But if anything I consider this a feature! Not everyone wakes up at 8 and is at work by 9. Some people prefer to have meetings later, some prefer earlier. Maybe it is best to stop assuming and just asking people. "Hey, what times do you like to take meetings at?" But even if you don't want to do that it is just as easy to look up "work hours in San Francisco" than it is to look up "current time in San Francisco". (In fact it may be easier since you don't need to then do math to find the offset and hope that daylight savings doesn't change the offset between when you look it up and when the event happens.) On top of that if someone schedules a meeting with you then you immediately know if it works well for you, because you know what times you like to have meetings at. IMHO it is much better to know the time of the meeting reliably than to try to guess if it is a good time for other parties. If the other parties can reliably know what time it is scheduled for they know if it is a good time for them, and can let you know if it isn't.
I think the real main downside is in how we talk about times and dates. Right now it is very common to say something like Feb 15th, 14:00-19:00. However if the day number changes during the day it can be a bit confusing. But honestly I'm sure we will get used to this quickly. Probably it just ends up being assumed. If you write Feb 15th 22:00-03:00 people know that the second time is the the 16th. People working night shifts deal with this problem now and it has never seemed like a big complaint. Things like "want to grab dinner on the 15th" may be a bit more confusing if your day rolls over around dinner time where you are, but I'm sure we would quickly adopt conventions to solve this problem. It would definitely be a big change, but these aren't hugely complex problems. Language and culture would quickly adapt.
So overall I think it is better. It makes it 100% reliable to agree and discuss specific times and it doesn't really change the difficulty of identifying a good time in a particular location. The only real downside is how we communicate about time currently, but I think that would be pretty easy to overcome.
However I don't think it is really worth changing. It would be a huge shift for a relatively little gain. How about we just focus on getting rid of Daylight Savings Time for now, then we can ponder switching to UTC and base 12 counting in the future.
I use UTC for all of my logs. Keeps it less confusing.
Grateful for this thread. Never thought about how its actually useful to have different zones to know whether to call or other things. Kinda makes a lot of sense
That would make 9 to 5 jobs quite a challenge outside Europe and Africa...
“you’re fucking late to your goddamn shift you lazy piece of shit it’s already 35*()*46 B,shk past 73!!”
You could address Daylight Savings Time by just having people set their own schedule, but it was generally seen as easier for the government to change the clocks.
As others have mentioned, there are typically schedules that are assumed based on time. It is easier from a social setting to keep time universal and adjust based on time zones. The context informed by local time is fast more useful than a standard time.
What you do is you have both, kind of like we already do, but with the global time being the default rather than local time. So, if I were to look at my phone right now, it would say something like 1433 9:33AM.
When referencing the time to people I know to be local, I'd use the local time, but any time confusion could occur, I'd use the global time. We have everything in place already, we just need people to get used to knowing what time it is UTC