Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they've put into getting it to the state it's in today, it's going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it's flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn't the case with X11. They all just work. That's kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn't matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can't use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say "Wayland is ready" while also saying "many of the apps for Wayland are not ready" ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn't even try.
I'll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than "is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool"
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of "Wayland is here"... so yeah, I'll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don't get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
My Desktop runs wayland on nvidia.... so?!
Screen sharing is still a pain in my experience. I'm a tiling window manager guy. I used i3 for years. Switched to sway, but have issues because xdg-desktop-portal-wlr can't do application sharing, only entire screen sharing. Well I have a ultra ultra wide screen, so people can't see shit on normal monitors when I try to share my screen. So at work, where I regularly have video conferences, I'm constantly changing my screen resolution so that I can screen share something that looks OK to others, but 1980x1024 looks ridiculous on my end on my ultrawide.
Hyperland can share applications and even regions, which is awesome, and I tested it successfully on my home gentoo system, but it only worked on Firefox. Didn't work for my jitsi electron app and didn't work in qutebrowser. And hyperland isn't easily installable on Ubuntu which is what I run for work because my work computer needs to just werk (gentoo is probably even more stable but I can't mess with long complie upgrades at work and some corporate software is only available as .debs)
So yea my life would honestly be easier if I just stuck with i3 everywhere but I'm stubbornly trying to use Wayland because I know it's the future but don't kid yourselves, it is a pain in the ass
I miss Firefox remembering where its windows were when it restarts >_>
Something wayland lacks but Xorg has?
Basic functionality. Anyone that actually thinks Wayland is ready either doesn't use it or is just straight coping. Maybe it'll get there, but... honestly, probably not.
Come back to me when I don't need to treat wayland like a bethesda game and install a bunch of mods, plugins, packages, and do a bunch of other crap just to get basic functionality.
Most things would be solved if mainteners EVER updated their app's electron version or stopped doing custom things with it and just let electron read $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/electron-flags.conf
Like, everything?
Guake doesn't work, gnome-screenshot doesn't work, Plank doesn't work...
Most GUI utilities that integrate into the OS of some kind require drawing over apps. It's absurd that Wayland doesn't support this properly for uhhh no reason other than vague claims of improved security and process isolation. If someone's into your system with such a degree of access it's all over anyway.
If I'm not using Gnome, then I'll be using i3 and then I honestly could care less which one, I'll just be using the most compatible one which I think is just xorg. Plasma just sucks I'm so sorry, it's messy.
And I'm sorry but there's no serious work you can do with an AMD GPU either. I wish it wasn't like this but it is, no CUDA no joy.
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
I see people having a good to great experience with NVIDIA on Wayland. I lack that ability, I can never get my PC to run well on Wayland. (using the propriety drivers) hoping the new GSP firmware and the improvements to MESA-Nouveau + NVK fixes my issues. even if their are teething pains. because of how unusable it currently just is for me. course if I had the money, the easiest fix to make Linux usable for me is to buy a AMD GPU. FYI, I have a 2070Super. It is a consistently bad experience on it, with the NVIDIA propriety drivers.
The situation is rapidly getting better, and I’m daily driving Fedora 38 with 3060Ti using the RPMFusion Nvidia driver and Gnome+Wayland. Everything (and I do mean everything) I’ve tried has all its basic functionality at baseline. Xwayland is a thing and it covers for not having true Wayland support in alot of cases. Not like there aren’t bugs and QOL issues, but from what I’ve seen Nvidia is engaged and working to fix them. We should probably try to critique Nvidia/Wayland based on specific issues now, instead of broad brush “Nvidia/Wayland bad” rhetoric…
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
I have a weird setup, which is my fault I guess, but it results in me having two keyboards with different languages. And I frequently switch between them in my workflow, so it can be super annoying to manually switch the language every time.
On X I use a combination of two tools to automatically set the language per keyboard, which works even when hotplugging.
On wayland I found no alternative so far, but if you have any ideas, please let me know.
xrandr. afaik, there's no (standard) way to set display resolution from the command line in wayland. also, there's no equivalent of xkill, so in order to kill an unresponsive gui app, you have to grep for its pid in
ps, which can get a bit tedious and annoying, especially for programs which spawn multiple processes.Sometimes apps just don't work properly in Wayland, I have two development VMs with Ubuntu, and in both cases I had to switch to X11 because of UI issues with Wayland and eclipse plugins or crashes when I closed a terminal window.
On the other hand I use Wayland on my own desktop and have not seen any problems.
Sway can't set my 3 displays as extended like I can with i3 with xorg.
Also I recently wanted to try to record on OBS with sway to rule out an issue that I have with my AMD card with colors, and I wasn't able to get OBS to work, installed xdg-desktop-portal-wlr, set the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway environment variable and didn't work.
Also for some reason my xfce4 apps are ignoring my xdg base dir variables (I have config and cache inside ~/.local) when using either sway or hyprland and that results in issues with my theming and the creation of the .config and .cache dirs in home again, what is weird is that it only happens with the xfce apps.
EDIT: I was able to test OBS on hyprland instead of sway and the issue with the colors is still present even on wayland.
xdotool. I just spent a non zero amount of time building and setting up ydotool (a similar tool that works on Wayland) as a systemd service on my raspberry pi. Made me appreciate how nice it is to just install a thing and have it work flawlessly even after a reboot and all you ever did to set it up was a single installation command that completed in like 3 seconds.
SSH tunneling
Not really, I have some small annoyances with wayland, but nothing major, with the biggest one being windows not remembering their position on logout, meaning I have to re-arrange them every time I logout/reboot... That and if the compositor crashes, it takes all windows with it, doesn't happen often but is a real pain whenever it does happen.
I can't complain, installed Fedora 39 Kinoite and everything is working great. The only thing I have noticed is that drag and drop from dolphin into some flatpak applications is not working; But that is pretty much it and I am not even sure if Wayland is causing this. This is honestly the most usable Linux has ever been for me.
- Unattended remote desktop solutions
- Rustdesk
- Meshcentral
- Software KVM (Synergy/Barrier)
All work in progress, I know, but at the moment none of them work as good as in Xorg.
- Unattended remote desktop solutions
Just random things like screen sharing not working in all applications or having weird issues with connecting more than 2 monitors.
I can't run console apps like jdupes through mtp protocol in wayland which is very troublesome for me since i using it alot, but i successfully can run it in xorg because it mounts as a folder not as protocol, and yes I've tried to use gui "open this folder in terminal" in wayland programs like jdupes still don't work through mtp but in xorg they do regardless of how i do it
well it doesnt work on my graphics card for one.
Oh man, reminds me of trying to use slightly non-standard monitor with wayland.
X? Just tell it to be the resolution/refresh rate. Wayland? Just get fucked.If my laptop suspends (?), the graphics get scrambled. Like, I shut the lid, come back a few hours later, and it's a completely garbled mess. Happens with Wayland; doesn't happen with X11.
I got one of those NUCs at work that has new Intel XE integrated graphics. X11 works amazing, but wayland operates like a slideshow when I move windows around. Never looked much into it, just went to X11 and never went back.
Give me sticky keys or give me X
Tooling.
Xorg? Wayland? Seems like I lack context to understand that competition.
My distro came wirh Cinnamon, and it died two times on my setup after updates - black screen after login - before I installed Xfce instead and still use it daily. I love that unlike Windows you can just jump ships and unsubscribe from what you dislike. This meme draws that freedom as something bad. It's not healthy to the community...
... but if there would be a DE war, Xpect frequent combat engagements, as the way to your land and ten of your HQs are marked with red Xs on my map.
I miss apps supporting global hotkeys. Screen remote support in popular apps.
on a laptop with Wayland, everything is sufficient. Xorg is terrible
xbindkeysYes, support for sessions in Plasma.
LIAR
