[SPOILER] Am I playing Baldur's Gate wrong?
[SPOILER] Am I playing Baldur's Gate wrong?
Recently, I started my second campaign in Baldurs Gate in addition to the campaign I play with my wife in co-op. My wife and I opted for the easiest difficulty in our playthrough since neither if us ever played similar game.
This time I felt like it would be such a breeze since I already know a bit more about the game and DnD in general. I opted for the balanced mode with my new character and started going through Act I and boy oh boy do I get wrecked almost everywhere. Multiple of my characters already died and I had to revive them.
Characters
Including Gale, which in turn triggered cool mini-quest to revive him, but the magic aura around his dead body killed Astarion multiple times.
I feel very scared going into each combat and trying to plan as much in advance as possible (keep in mind I mostly know what awaits me there, because I've gone through Act I already).
Where I got wrecked
I got wrecked at the church before you get to Whithers, I got wrecked by the hyenas and gnolls by the caravan road, I got absolutly wrecked by the Paladins of Tar and
I just don't know what am I doing wrong.
My party
I play as high elf paladin and most of my encounters so far I've had Astarion, Gale, and Shadow in my party. I feel like the only actually useful member is Astarion. I probably don't know how to utilize Gale well enough and my Tav paladin just feels like a paper-thin wall between the enemy and the rest of the party.
Are these early encounters in Act I intentionally challenging so that the game "force-teaches" you to utilize everything at your disposal and will it get easier later on or am I just on the wrong path with my character and my party? Honestly, I can't imagine going through the goblin camp in this state.
Do you have karmic dice on? On the lowest difficulty with karmic dice the enemies tend to hit and crit more often since they get the same +hit you do. Turning that setting off will make your rolls more random which means you can have good and bad streaks but the enemies are less likely to crit you every other hit.
Does karmic dice have a different effect on higher difficulties?
No idea. I turned it off after i learned about the lower level adjustments. They seem fairer at higher levels to me.
Those three fights are the "big ones" in act 1, probably as hard as the goblin camp, what level were you when you did them?
The easiest difficulty make combat a faceroll (which is a great way to experience the story, if that's your primary goal); balanced makes you care about what level you are for the encounter, positioning, and your party make-up; Honour makes you think about terrain, party make-up, item use, damage types, and resource management.
Your ranged characters shouldn't be close enough together that they can be hit with an AoE, and ideally, they are somewhere that gives advantage.
Party make up
Shadowheart is mean and stupid, and she's also easily replaced as long as anyone else in the part has "Guidance".
I think I was level 3 for the church and level 4 for the other two fights.
party
I mainly carry Shadow because of the Guidance and I want to try romancing her (so I can build up the approvals) but otherwise my paladin Tav can heal as well. I might try switching her for Lae'zel or Karlach.
Just south of the druid grove there's a hill you can climb up that has an amulet that gives Guidance. If that's your only reason for including Shadowheart, that might be a good alternative.
If you are going to keep Shadowheart, I'd recommend respeccing her to switch subclasses (I'm a fan of Tempest cleric, but there are several good options) and fixing her stats (like choosing either STR or DEX rather than splitting both).
Make your paladin a 2h smiteadin with a bard dip for college of swords maneuvers. Yes bring karlach and laezel and all 3 of you single-target 2h shredder your way through the enemies.
Assassin astarion is a monster and can usually sneak attack kill targets in one shot. Especially if you go the ranged route and add the extra base damage from that one ranged feat.
Once gale has fireball you can trade him out for astarion and just huck those things around as much and as often as you can and rest every time he's out. He's also really good at magic missile spam with those electricity items.
Most importantly, you should always prioritize killing one enemy at a time so that you're quicker to remove them from the turn order and prevent them from doing damage on their turn. Basically never split damage with your single target party members.
To be fair those are definitely the toughest fight in Act I. I've only played on balanced, so I can't vouch for story mode. I would highly recommend adding Lae'zel or Karlach to your party though. This is a good idea.
Well, that level makes sense for the fights.
I'm on my first honour play though, just hit level 11, and my party is the same as yours, but swapping the person who is stupid and mean for the second person you mentioned.
It might be a matter of changing battlefield positioning, or focusing on "action economy" if you're not already. Unless you are doing an AoE, someone with concentration needs to be interrupted, or there is an odd mechanic, it's best to kill enemies one by one. That means one less person is attacking you each round, and this advantage grows each person you kill off.
Yeah, having a barb or fighter will be huge in your party. Also don't forget, you can change them out way easier now than before.
Hey mate.
Getting wrecked is no shame at all.
I got absolutely wrecked by the bandits in the ruis too. Then I reloaded, discovered what use an oil keg can be, and won the fight.
Same with the Goblin camp, or the (second) attack on the Grove (which was far easier after moving some objects)
It's incredible how much easier a fight turns out if you contemplate for half a minute and the restart.
On the other side I decided to not reload, after one of the characters got killed in camp, because opposite to losing a fight, It was my decision to watch the outcome - which was worse.PS: I am doing it the other way than you did. I started in August alone in balanced mode, and are halfway through act2 by now. And started a co-op playthorugh together with my wife in easy mode two weeks ago.
Respec shadowheart into a war or tempest cleric, trickery is without a doubt the worst subclass in the whole game.
Remember that gale grants allies immunity to his evocation spells, so don't worry about AOE with those
I mean depends on what you mean by playing "wrong". If you mean non-optimal, then of course, because almost no one is. If you survive each encounter with at least one alive, then you're not going game over though, and it's trivial to resurrect the rest of your characters, just need some money. Perfectly fine way to play the game.
If you want some general tips on how to play fights better:
- Always always always focus the target that has the worst damage/survivability ratio first, and only that. Enemy wizards. Or ranged enemies. Or small, fast critters. Each enemy does its full damage no matter what its hp is. 10 half-HP enemies are much worse for you than 5 full-HP ones and 5 dead ones. That said, still use your AOE spells with your wizards etc, but then immediately target only one of those damaged ones to go down first.
- Each combat participant has a threat radius around it, which is the radius in which they can deal damage to something. If the threat radius of 4 enemies overlaps on one of your characters, that character is in big trouble. But in turn, if the threat radius of 4 of your characters overlaps on one enemy that enemy is in huge trouble. So, always create situations in which all your characters can do damage to an enemy, but they can't do the same to you. For example, positioning your ranged characters on a cliff could make them immune to a bunch of melee enemies and deliberately not running your melees in, waiting for the enenies to come to you and using (sub-optimal compared to melee) range attacks on your melees until then.
- Use healing word and throwing of potions to pick up downed characters. Don't heal before they go down, it's mostly not worth it. If your bonus action is not used, keep drinking healing potions with it in hard fights. If you can, spread around the damage on your characters, like I just said, 4 half-HP characters are damage-wise exactly as strong as 4 full-HP ones, but 2 full-HP and 2 downed ones are much much worse.
- Use your long rest abilities, like spell slots, liberally. There's enough resources laying around to rest often.
You gave lots of good advice, but I strongly disagree with this point:
Don't heal before they go down, it's mostly not worth it.
If you wait until a player is downed then you lose 3 full action rounds, which has a huge impact. You lose the round that the player is down, the action from the player who gets them back up, and then the action from the downed character the turn after they get up. It's much better to use bonus actions or positioning to keep a player from going down in the first place.
You don't lose an action to get them back up. Healing Word is a bonus action. Healing before going down actually wastes many many more actions, because yeah you're spending the actions to heal all the time instead of doing damage/disables and removing enemies from the fight. Damage prevention in killing/disabling enemies is much better than healing against it, since healing spells have so small values compared to damage spells. Just compare Cure Wounds and Chromatic Orb.
In fact I haven't even said the best benefit of only using healing spells when someone goes down: if an enemy does 30 damage per round and you try to heal against it, you need to heal 30 hp per round, good luck ever achieving that. But if you heal only when someone goes down, you can heal as little as 1hp, with exactly the same effect. Essentially you're using minimal resources, can do that heal with lvl 1 spell slots, while keeping one strong enemy essentially stunned since they "waste" their turn re-downing the one character that just gets healed by 1hp each round.
How did you enter the church? You can sneak in the right hand side and avoid two of the fights. You only have to fight the skeletons (which you can disarm).
Also you can talk your way out of the first fight at the church. Or you can kill half the guys there by shooting the giant block hanging over their heads.
Don’t be scared of combat, just use quicksave liberally until you feel more confident. There is almost always a shortcut or easy way out of combat in BG3. My current run i’m trying to solo tactician so you gotta skip as much as you can. I’m at several hundred hours in the game so if you have more specific questions don’t hesitate to ask.
The gnolls with hyenas are very tough. They are probably the toughest thing before you go to the Underdark or into the mountain pass
Based on my DnD 5e experience, wizards like Gale come into their power once they get the Fireball spell, which happens at 5th level. Burning Hands is ok at lower levels but it tends to put the wizard in harm's way
Your party balance sounds reasonable. Better armor and higher constitution will help your paladin tank more over time
Keep going. It'll get easier and feel more natural over time
Take a look at some guides for your character types. You might be doing a bit more role playing and not enough combat specing. I mean not everyone in Faerun can hold their own with a goblin or giant spider. So make sure you're not making all the wrong choices by mistake.
Also, I got wrecked in a few battles of Act 1 as well. Anytime I fight Githyanki I'm thinking, "Well, there goes half my health potions and revive scrolls." Don't be afraid of save scumming and don't be afraid to stack the deck in your favor. Long rest, drink elixirs, apply buffs, strategically place exploding barrels, and summon familiars if you expect a hard battle. And unless you're fighting a "boss" or an enemy that has lines of dialogue don't get concerned about pushing things off cliffs. With most you're not permanently losing good gear.
one big simple tip i can give you: Respec shadowheart. literally just pick a different type of priest. maybe knock her strength down a little. i like life domain, but plenty of the others are good too.
otherwise, just try to play with the environment more. be ok with not hitting the enemy sometimes. hide around corners and behind doors, shoot from high shadows, use the area of effects as well as you can. sometimes you can cheese the hell out of fights in ways the game encourage.
all that said, paladin starts week, shadowheart's default loadout just IS week, rogue starts week, and with wizard you gotta find the spells that work for you. some of them are bad and the class starts with so few spell slots...
try getting the staff from the waukeen's rest quest reward, the amulet of magic missile from blurg and like a couple other "lightning charge" items and give all that to gale and start spamming "magic missile" you'll feel strong.
Nah, sounds pretty close to how I did on my first playtrough as well. All of those are among the hardest fights early on. In my experience it gets a little easier as you level up, but there are still a lot of fights that can absolutely wreck you if you're not careful or not using all the tools you have available.
A few things that helped me:
- pick and choose fights. Many of the harder fights you can skip and come back later
- use line of sight (and elevation!) to your advantange. Enemies can't use ranged attacks on you if they can't see you, and if you're above them they have penalty to hit and you get advantage!
- use ground effects to create choke points/limit enemy movement. You have grease spell/bottles available early and you get a lot stronger stuff as you progress
- use environmental effects when they're available. There's a ton of explosive barrels and other things to trigger that can be very helpful
I wouldn’t say wrong - but there’s probably some nuance you’re overlooking. As a general rule healing is not super strong in D&D so you may want to forego having a dedicated healer, you also might want to focus on “control” spells that can either take an enemy out for a few turns or otherwise minimize their threat.
With exceptions... I busted healing with speccing Shadowheart as a life domain cleric and picked up some gear along the way - would not have made it through the game without my dedicated healer.
In this vein, sleep is the most op spell at low levels. Taking out 2-3 minions makes so many fights way easier.
There are certainly some play styles that are less risk averse. I found wizards to be difficult to play early on, sorcerers less so, but still swishy without the right multiclass.
A fighter or barbarian makes fights much easier. It’s not that you don’t have a good front line, but shadow does no damage, astarion can’t really do his thing as a rogue yet, and gale is just weak early on. Can’t say much about paladins, but kitted out right should get you somewhere.
Personally, I’d swap gale out for someone like laezel. Or get a hirling and spec them out.
Fun fact, you can change the difficulty to balanced, make your multiclass, and then change back to explorer if you want. It’ll keep.
Try to use the environment. Eg for the church, there is an oil barrel that can cause a lot of damage. For gnolls try to use the high ground and you can turn the boss on the others. Sometimes it’s best just to attack first, Asterion can usually kill an enemy in the first round.
Are you using the terrain to your advantage? All of the fights you described getting wrecked at can become a breeze just by using the environment to your benefit.
Fights solutions
During the fight against the skeleton mages before Wither's coffin, don't try to fight them in the giant open room, go into Wither's room and wait for them to come to you while throwing some grease on the stairs before. Have your ranged characters take potshots at them and run back into the room. Same exact strategy for paladins of Tyr, lure them out of the house while dropping nasty surfaces on the exit. Hyenas you want to try to nuke before they turn/run for help, your paladin has Smites for that and Astarion can work his sneak attacks.
General tips
Wizards are absolutely busted when paired with melee characters even early game (they only get more and more insane as they gain levels). Sleep is your best friend. Guaranteed hit + critical is lethal when used with a Smite or Sneak attack. Hold Person is a near guaranteed kill on a target if it lands, especially if you have a Hasted melee. In general, your spellcaster's job is crowd control and AoE damage. Shadowheart's default Domain is pretty meh, I always respec her into Light for way better spells and abilities. As a paladin, 99% of your spellslots should be spent on Divine Smites. Your spells are generally pretty weak (Heroism is pretty good early game), while Smites are absolutely insane. Potions of Haste are crazy powerful early game, use them on your Paladin whenever you are in a tough fight. Wear good armor/shields, Gale can use a shield with no penalties so slap one on him for free +2 AC. The most important advice is action economy is king. Use any means available to deprive enemies of their actions. Line of sight, surfaces like grease or web, crowd control spells. Make them waste an action to Dash to you while you wait for them with a Fireball ready.
I just stacked boxes to jump over the wall of priestess gut's room to get all the powder and oil barrels and everyone carries 3 or 4 depending on what their capacity is, and if I can't clear a battle normally I reload to the save before and sneak barrels strategically around and blow them all up from a distance.
As such I don't feel like there is a right or wrong way. Next play through I'm going to try not to do this but I know I'm inevitably going to try to come up with some really dumb cheese tactics.
Goblin camp you can just let gut drug you and dialogue then done. The drow what's her name you can sell out the Grove and then shoot the bridge down as she's leaving. The other guy you can void ball him into the pit next to his throne after the cutscene that makes him sit and invis or tp away with a scroll, or barrel bomb the whole room so no witnesses are left.
On the topic of utilizing Gale (or Wyll): The spell Cloud of Daggers is pretty useful early on with a bit of positioning. It won't get you singlehandedly through every fight, but you can make lots of fights easier by casting that spell in a choke point and forcing enemies to walk into it to get you.
Bonus points if you can upcast, more bonus if you position your paladin or cleric on the other side of the cloud to keep enemies in it or push them back in once they're through it. Ranged enemies will move into it if they can't see their targets, so hide your party arong corners to lure them in.
If you have gale and wyll, you can get two clouds going.
This is a bit off topic because you don't use her. But there's a javelin build with karlach that carried me from early act 1 a good ways through act 3. Theoretically should work on any strength character, but best with a barbarian:
Subclass her into the frenzy barbarian. Take tavern brawler as your feat. Find the ring of flinging from the merchant in the Grove.
The javelin base damage is 1d6 + str damage, ring of flinging adds 1d4, and tavern brawler adds your strength again to the attack roll and damage roll. Plus the feat gives +1 str to bump karlach up to 18(+4 modifier).
Then, frenzy allows you to throw a second (and later third) javelin with your bonus action.
Each hit tends to have 95% chance, has considerable range, and reliably puts out about 15/hit with the potential to hit like 28 Twice per turn.
The frenzy hit also has a good chance to knock your target prone for that extra salt.
Then you can buy the pike of returning from the goblin merchant (must be before you agro them) to automatically get it back after you throw it so you don't need a ton of javelins. And you can also collect the gloves of uninhibited kushido from the myconid colony to bump the damage up even more.
Casting enlarge on her helps with that damage output, as well as an elixer of the Hill giant, or anything that bumps str up more.