How secure are old computers/laptops?
How secure are old computers/laptops?
As we know, buying an older phone can be a big security risk, as it might not get updates anymore. How about laptops? i would install Linux on the laptop. Is it a security risk to buy a used and refurbished computer from maybe 2019?
If you're installing a fresh checksummed Linux download and formatting the entire drive during install you shouldn't have any worries. Go for it.
This depends on your threat model and circumstances:
Old versions of OS are generally a security risk.
Old hardware may lack some modern security features near the hardware level. However these usually protect against tampering with BIOS or bootloaders. In general threats like this need physical access to the machine. I don’t know much about TPM and keystorage in general, but those are what this might concern.
Other than that, old networking hardware might have vulnerabilities that are either not patched with software or are impossible to path. This extends to any device and all device-drivers, but network-devices to me sound the most exposed surface.
This risk however depends on not just the device but the usage as well. If you use it inside a local network, you lose a layer of defence. If you use it in an untrusted network, you are exposed directly.
I would usually not be concerned about old hardware as long as it can run a modern OS I trust. This means most laptops are fine, but phones not so much.
Especially phones with no access to patched applications become less and less secure as time goes by. Old hardware is a small risk; old OS is a concern; old browser on said old OS and you can bet there is at least one serious, well-known and already used vulnerability.
I’m personally tinkering with an old 4th-gen iPad, hoping to secure it or at least jailbreak it. However I am not expecting it to ever be a safe device after that, but a glorified IOT device.
You mention old hardware is generally exploited physically, but we've seen a number of critical bugs in CPUs in recent years such as Specter and Meltdown that can be exploited by just visiting a website. Yes these can be mitigated by the OS, but alluring that hardware bugs are not exploitable remotely isn't quite correct.
I didn’t know Specter or Meltdown can be exploited through a website, that’s good to know.
I should have been more specific on this issue: old hardware is much less common to exploit than old OS or software, so buying new hardware for the sake of hardware security might not be necessary for ones threat scenario. However if there is a risk of a malicious actor accessing or stealing the hardware, then the hardware is definitely relevant.
Similarly I do think one can do a lot with old hardware if they can find a usecase with less needed privileges.
I would usually not be concerned about old hardware as long as it can run a modern OS I trust. This means most laptops are fine, but phones not so much.
This is not a good suggestion because even with up to date and modern operating systems, hardware vulnerabilities can often be leveraged
People do it all the time. The security concerns both with phones and computers is mostly the OS. So if the Linux is up to date, it's good.
The issues may be insecurity vulnerabilities in the firmware and hardware, such as malware in the hard drive fw, but those seem to be rare, and newer hardware isn't necessarily more secure anyway.
2019 isn't terribly old. Just installing Linux serve as a panacea for all of your security woes.
You'll probably want to (or not want to, depending on who you ask) use UEFI. You'll want to harden and containerise and use firewalls and so on... Depends on your threat model.
But, the fundamental question is that you can install Linux and as long as you keep it up to date, a large number of vulnerabilities will be covered. Just not all.
Security is not guaranteed by simply using linux. It may even worsen it.
primary difference between a computer and a phone in this regard is that old comouters can perfectly well run modern Linux. with a phone, you're lucky to have root at all so good luck updating it yourself.
Age is only part of the equation. Older ones can be more secure but you have to go further back and think of more than just the hardware. The big thing is to try to get a laptop that is sold using a non stock BIOS or be comfortable doing the work yourself. Libreboot; Coreboot; or something like it. After that try to use as free as an OS as you can such as Trisquel; Guix; Hyperbola; etc. There are lots of stores that sell laptops that are more secure out of the gate:
https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/
https://configurelaptop.eu/nv40-series/
https://store.thonkpeasant.xyz/
https://store.vikings.net/en/?route=common%2Fhome
Basically a computer is only as secure as you are willing to make it. You are limited by the hardware but you choose the hardware so you're only really limited by yourself.
This article shows why your proposals are not secure at all:
Older machines can be at risk from hardware flaws. But if your machine can run Windows 11, which most machines from 2019 can, you can safely use and install Linux on it. I recommend not buying a new machine that lacks official Windows 11 support even if you want to run Linux.