Does it matter that Gnome doesn't support VRR? And why?
Does it matter that Gnome doesn't support VRR? And why?
Question to help me increase my understanding on what’s going on in the Linux desktop stack. I’ve heard Gnome doesn’t support VRR while KDE does.
Why does this matter, isn’t Wayland or X11 the one that would ultimately need to support VRR? Basically when running a game that I want to use VRR with, why does it matter what my desktop environment is doing?
Yes, it does matter, it's a feature of your monitor that you just cannot use on gnome. Wayland DOES support VRR, it's had a protocol for it for a while now. GNOME doesn't support it yet. VRR works perfectly fine on KDE Plasma Wayland and Hyprland (standalone wayland compositor).
So can you just swap compositors for Gnome or is Gnome reliant on their own compositor (Mutter)?
Gnome is tightly integrated with mutter and doesn't support other compositors. Same is true for KDE with KWin.
No, I just use the KDE Plasma sesktop
Wayland and X11 are protocols, they are essentially just documentation. You need an implementation to be able to actually run programs on it, called a compositor. People tend to think of X11 as a single software because historically Xorg became dominant as the main implementation of the specification, so most of us have only ever used Xorg (but Xorg is not the only implementation of X11, there are many others). Wayland, as a newer protocol, hasn't undergone such consolidation yet, there are many competing compositors implementing the protocol in their own way. GNOME has one such compositor, and KDE has their own, and there are many others. So it's not about "Desktop Environments" all running over the same compositor, as it was on Linux in the Xorg days. Instead, the Wayland features you get are the ones your choice of compositor has already implemented, and can vary between different compositors.
So it's less the Gnome doesn't support VRR and more that "the wayland compatible desktop compositor that the Gnome project prefers doesn't support VRR"?
Which is basically the same thing. Gnome uses Mutter, which is a part of the Gnome project as a whole.
Wayland changes things a fair bit compared to Xorg. There's no standard Wayland server, each DE implements their own to suit their needs. Some libraries have emerged to help with that, it's relatively easy to get going with wlroots which Sway/Hyprland/Gamescope uses. But Gnome makes their own and so does KDE so it can integrate more deeply with the DE.
There's non-desktop compositors too, like for VR for example where you can manage your windows in 3D space all around you. That's where Wayland shines, that gets super complicated to do in Xorg but a breeze with Wayland.
Someone smarter than me can probably explain this way better...
As far as Wayland goes, If I remember correctly, it's mainly just a protocol, and Gnome/KDE do all the actual work of making stuff happen, so both need to support it to have it work correctly. Like if Wayland was a language like French, Gnome and KDE need to know the French words for something before they can have conversations about it, and Gnome hasn't been as studious with it's dictionary in regards to VRR. X11 just has an ancient code-base, and adding support for anything involves a lot of effort to make sure something else isn't broken by the addition.
Gnome hasn't officially merged support for VRR yet, but there is a merge request to add support, and a patched version built on that code available if you want to try it (mutter-vrr, gnome-control-center-vrr) at least on Arch Linux's AUR.
Gnome hasn’t officially merged support for VRR yet, but there is a merge request to add support
Open since three years: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154
And in all that time, more talking than coding.
The stupid thing is mutter-vrr works far better than Plasma's implementation in my experience. Plasma locks refresh rate to max if your cursor is moving, causing games that use the cursor to stutter badly while the mutter implementation refreshes the cursor at the game's rate as expected.
Oh that is crazy, will have to try out KDE VRR out on my machine and see if I get the same behavior.
You sound plenty smart to me, thanks for educating me
Gnome and KDE have their own Wayland compositors. Wayland is a protocol not a program itself.
Ah that makes a lot more sense. Thanks!
Wayland is documentation on how to do things. Mutter is GNOME's implementation. You can't swap out Mutter for anything else.
I dislike KDE, but I switched to it because of VRR. I miss GNOME.
Yeah I don’t want to insult the KDE folks but I miss Gnome as well.
It is embarrassing as hell that the Gnome folks haven’t merged that commit after this many years. They also don’t have any concrete steps laid out to the contributors to get it merged. It feels like they just don’t give a shit about section of their community and it’s pretty disrespectful to the original contributor to give them no path forward. End rant.
Never noticed while gaming for months in high refresh rate screen. I don’t think it’s worth switching to KDE. I’m currently on KDE because I was convinced by others this VRR issue was a problem but honestly there is so many things wrong with KDE I wish I did not switch