The fact that drug tests are normalized for jobs is fucking insane

My company does not do drug tests and never has. Someone asked the owner why and he said 'Id lose a lot of good people'

Thanks Reagan. Fun fact, in the mid 80's Reagan's administration did a big study to show how effective drug testing in the workplace was, and how much it raised productivity. When they got the results back, it found productivity had dropped, and workplace safety hadn't changed. The results said the program was a complete failure. They tried to bury the report and not release it. Rolling Stone magazine sued the government to get a copy, since it was made with public money, and won. They were the only media outlet to publish the results.

I run a manufacturing business; you oversimplify.

Quite coincidentally my HR person came to me just an hour ago and told me that two people have complained of a coworker smoking on breaks and at lunch and being high on the job.

He drives a heavy forklift. Am I to ignore the situation? If I do I expose my employees to danger and my small business to lawsuits.

How are the employees that reported it supposed to react if I say "Whatever, that's his business."

To a large extent businesses have their hands tied by the rules and laws of society.

You know it's all bullshit because they don't/can't test for alcohol dependence, which is way more devastating to a person's productivity than cannabis.

It really depends on the position and what they're testing for. Do you really want a heavy machinery operator to be a cokehead or heroin addict? There is a real risk of them killing someone. Testing someone in a job like IT for smoking weed? That's a different story.

Also a lot of the time they only test you post-hiring if you fucked up somehow.

It can definitely be used against people (usually the disenfranchised) though to prevent them being hired or to get them fired.

Damn, América really is crazy. I wouldn't accept such tests and I've never even tried drugs.

Hard drugs also don't show up on a drug test nearly as long as weed does, so you're really only stopping people who smoked in the last month, while others are doing whatever.

You should see how they do it in the service industry. No tests to get the job, but if you're ever hurt at work and entitled to workman's comp they give you a test and if you've smoked weed anytime in the last month the presumption is that you were high at work and not only do they not have to pay you for your injury but they just flat-out fire you.

Imagine thinking "my employees are performing great but maybe I should check their pee to be sure"

They can't do this in Europe unless it's actually dangerous for the job, medical professional, operating heavy industrial machinery, cop etc. It's just because the US has no worker rights laws.

You don't want someone who is still high driving a train, but it's probably fine if all I need to do is off work.

In Canada (and I think in most of the world) it's illegal to randomly test employees unless you have reasonable cause.

Testing of an individual employee may be allowed in specific cases where there is reasonable cause to believe the employee is impaired by drugs or alcohol while on duty or is unable to work safely due to impairment from alcohol or drugs.

My biggest fear is failing one when I haven't taken anything. I never have, but I know people who have. I've also known people who have passed after getting totally blitzed the night before. They are wildly inaccurate, aside from being an invasion of privacy.

It's especially frustrating as someone who needs cannabis for severe anxiety, because it's anxiety inducing in itself to have to hide it and that pretty much cancels out the benefits for me- it's something we absolutely need to destigmatize at work especially.

I am so glad my new job doesn't test unless if there is an industrial accident or in very specific dangerous positions where it is warranted. Handbook basically says don't show up to work fucked up. What you do on your own time is your business.

It is a huge breach of privacy, especially when you have to start disclosing legally prescribed medications that they test for. Why a company has a right to my body, my medical history, or any other private information is nuts.

The fact that there is a system, run by Equifax of course, where employers can choose to hand your work history, paystubs, and other information to and then other companies can then pay to get access to is also nuts. You can request to have it frozen, but who the hell even knows to do this? It is messed up.

https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

The main thing is, as long as you don't show up to work blitzed I don't see how anyone should give a shit. Whatever you do at home is your business, provided you leave it at home.

That's the policy at my business. IDGAF if you spend all of your off hours at the bottom of a bottle or on top of cloud nine, just don't bring it to work.

Additional problems include: If there is a workplace accident and someone gets injured, both OSHA and insurance companies immediately come knocking to try to do drug tests on everyone involved purely as an attempt to shift blame and deny claims. We don't have any heavy equipment here or anything so I'm not too worried about that, but there are businesses in America that would get fucked in a situation like that so they're kind of forced to enact drug bans even if management doesn't want to on a personal level.

You know teachers are never drug tested in the US.

Like ok maybe drug testing someone who is driving/flying a bunch of people around…I kinda get it. Safety of the public etc.

But drug testing at an office job? Come fucking on. That’s political face. Nothing more.

The fact any employee feels like it has the right to what I go after work is insane. This means drugs testing, second jobs, only-fans/ porn or anything similar.

As drug use is nomalizing, I can understand that companies normalize drug tests, too. Even as a normal person I prefer jobs that require a certain level of precision or which could be dangerous when mistakes are made to be performed by people who are neither drunk nor high.

I agree, but some jobs I can see why, like if you're an air traffic controller, operate heavy machinery, etc. Government jobs and Government contractors ($100k+ contracts) also require them but that's a government job...

I completely agree.

Many years ago I applied for a McJob at Worst Buy. They had mandatory drug testing even (especially?) for the lowest level job I was applying for.

I couldn't pee when I went to the medical place for the test. Not sure I recall correctly but I think I went back a second time and drank a lot of water and was full of piss so I could do it. They never got back to me. No idea why. I guess they picked up the nicotine and didn't want to hire a cigarette smoker.

When I think about this now I'm pretty horrified that I even did the pee test. It would be exceptional circumstances for me to do this for anything employment related now. I'm very clean now but it is none of their fucking business. It does surprise me that it is legal.

You're right, but also it's to get cheaper business insurance. Because businesses that don't test have to pay more to insure themselves. If you own a business, you have to buy insurance for the business to ensure that if your business gets sued, it's the business that takes the hit, not you personally.

America is a sick joke

All it does is punish addicts trying to get back on their feet. For anyone else, you can just get a drink to clear you out the day before or just pretend that your prescription medications are causing a false positive.

I worked for a US company in the past and in my contract there was a phrase that I'm going to paraphrase. "Can be sent to unannounced drug tests (US only)"

This isn't a worldwide issue.

Always thought they were ridiculous and intrusive. So long as you show up sober and do your job properly who the fuck cares what you do in your off time? I'm the director for a nonprofit. I'm a huge stoner and my boss (executive director) was a hippie back in the day lol. I love hearing her wild drug stories from the 70's and 80's lmao. I'm also pretty open with my employees about the fact that I smoke weed. Turns out most of them do too! I always come well dressed, usually in a suit with a clean haircut, so I love seeing their faces when I tell them I'm a pot head lmao

Anyway, my employees are all very hard workers and I can tell they enjoy working here. The fuck would I ruin that by drug testing?

It's stupid because most jobs are so fucking dull and easy, being on drugs is the only way to get any stimulation at them.

Does this community work like r/unpopularopinion where you're supposed to upvote if you disagree and downvote otherwise? I agree, but I'm not sure which action to take.

The last job I worked at said they reserved the right to drug test at any time. Thankfully they never did, because I use cannabis to treat pain for a rare nerve disorder and I would be in pretty serious pain all the time if I didn't. But I was basically ready to stand up to them and say, "I'm not taking the test. I use cannabis. It's legal one state over, which is where I buy it. I don't get high when I'm working. If you want to fire me for it, have fun finding a new employee."

It's an insurance thing. Gotts have business insurance. Can't get that unless you can show that at least pretend to not have drug users working there. A drug test is the best way to show that effort.

Depends on the job. I don't know that I want my kids teacher on meth, or an airline pilot on speed or whatever. Working in education and the aviation industry (and military) are the only times I've been required to take a drug test. Don't know why it would be mandatory for certain industries. Like. Is my food not going to make it to the table from the kitchen because the waiter smoked a joint before his shift?

IIRC, many industries still get tax breaks and financial incentives for doing so.

I'm in NZ, but generally if you work on an industrial site, pre-work checks are normal along with "reasonable cause testing" and random checks are becoming more popular.

For office work, I don't know anyone that is tested.

Having worked on various industrial sites for over 15 years, I have only been randomly tested once, I have had two pre-employment checks done.

I don't see it as a big deal here, the reasonable cause testing is done to ensure who is safe, we have nationalized insurance here so there is no denial of claims or anything similar. You will almost certainly be fired if you are under the influence and cause an accident.

So what's the alternative? Have employees in an altered state attempting to do their jobs? Recreational drug users love to play the victim because they don't think their use negatively affects anyone, much in the same way a drunk driver thinks they can drive fine while drunk.

I work in a manufacturing facility, so very much a safety sensitive environment.

We are required to be drug tested as part of a pre-employment screening and potentially after incidents. The cool thing is it is part of our collective bargaining agreement that they are not allowed to screen for THC with a urine sample because of how invasive it is.

Mouth swabs are more expensive, but also only screen for THC within 24 hours. I'm sure that number is up for debate as well, but it is a far cry from the 6-8 weeks you can potentially test positive for with a urine screening.

Place I work explicitly told me they don't drug test. They understood what you do on your time is your business. So long as you don't come to work under the influence of anything.

Your job is paying for your health insurance. I’m honestly surprised they don’t test for more. The American health care system is ridiculous.

It’s only legal if it’s required for your profession (like in aviation), it might threaten life or mean death (for instance a taxi driver), there are big non-lethal risks connected to the employee’s work (no idea on this one)

As it’s a medial procedure so it has extra rules regarding that and the shielding of medical records from the employer.

The company also have to discuss this with the workers show stewards before they choose to do testing, and other forms of action needs to be taken and be ineffective before you can move on to testing.

Not all jobs drug test in the USA, if you get onboarded for a job that does eventually test, refuse, and if they have an issue with it, decide if it's worth your time to fight them over it or walk away and start the slow job hunt grind again. You don't have to work for a company that tests, that is ultimately a choice you make. A common issue however with finding jobs that don't drug test is that you're going to be footing your bills for all standard healthcare plan costs and such. No biggie if you value your urine privacy!

It's largely a cash cow industry that exists to absolve employers of liability. It takes on a different form in cases of legitimate safety concerns.

It's not unlike the DEI industry in that way, because while there's legitimate notions behind it, the form it takes in this coercive context is more about what benefits the employer. If your employee's supposed personal resentments are the cause of all the problems with nepotism and favoritism etc... if employees are more focused on their own differences and the employer can claim a moral high ground...

Ah, yes, I want my plane pilots to be high as F

Sure, it doesn't matter what I do on their time. But, if my time starts affecting company time, then it becomes a problem. It'd be a pretty bad look if I showed up to work wasted.

For the record, while my job doesn't involve particularly heavy machinery, it does involve moving heavy loads, and it's public-facing.

As long as company pays for it and time spent, its okay.

Wonder if drug tests are actual testing on which can shatter one's mind lol.