Where do you think Nintendo will take Zelda from here?
Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are both fantastic games - and Tears of the Kingdom really does feel (to me) like they just took Breath of the Wild, and added a few more years of dev time to it.
Where do you think Nintendo will take Zelda from here though? Can they keep with the same new formula? Should they? Will a more traditional game feel disappointing after this?
I don't really know what I want myself. I think they should try something different though. At the same time, I can't help but think I'd be disappointed if the next game was more similar to something like Twilight Princess. Have they boxed themselves in?
Assuming we get a third game in the botw run, I would love to see link travel back to early Hyrule like Zelda did. Nintendo could use the blueprint of the depths ruins as the backbone for a thriving Zonai civilization. Aboveground would be a truly wild Hyrule similar to what the depths are now. No sky islands as this would predate their creation. Instead we could have a 'dive' feature that lets us visit an ancient Zora, spread out in the waters in and around Hyrule. All new characters (except maybe Raru and friends), but many characters could be ancestors of current characters so they would be familiar in some ways. I would love to see the ability to tame monsters, more complex Zonai devices, and yes, perhaps real dungeons.
Also I could even see a fourth game in this series that totally turns all of the formula on its head. It would actually star Zelda, and she would travel through time to different eras of Hyrule. We'd get to see areas and dungeons from ocarina of time, twilight princess, skyward sword and even many of the 2d titles, redesigned with botw graphics and controls. The focus of the game would be for Zelda to help Link. She must stay out of sight, navigate dungeons to place keys, compasses, maps and/or key weapons that the link of that era will need to defeat whatever evil he faces. I think this would be super cool.
Instead we could have a ‘dive’ feature that lets us visit an ancient Zora, spread out in the waters in and around Hyrule.
The Legend of Zelda: The Way of Water
In all seriousness though, this sounds amazing. There are so many unanswered questions from the BotW universe. It would be interesting to see another addition to the series.
Although I might be in the minority, I hope that they try to make a story-centered game like Twilight Princess. I loved how deep the characters felt and the atmosphere so much. I think they could mix in more story telling and maybe even some kind of friendship/affinity system with NPCs. I don't think it would interfere with the core mechanics too much.
There was definitely lacking in the story department in totk. In botw at least you got to find the villages, get to understand the different cultures etc. In totk being the same, that discovery factor was gone and the story elements were severely lacking. The missions are also very basic and somehow don't have the satisfaction of completing them.
I haven't finished TOTK yet and I feel the same. It's a good sandbox game of zonai tech, but IMO it's not a good "Zelda" game. I know people might argue that traditional approach of dungeon puzzle or boss design makes it too "linear" or not exploring the creativity of player. Basically, designer designed how a puzzle or boss should be dealt with. BUT, at least it was done in a meaningful way that you learn along the way of different mechanism and how older Zelda shine.
I will probably try finished all the shrines and story and put it away. Since the side quests I run into so far are mostly copy paste side quests. (photo quests I will probably do them all if I can find them. I like photo quests)
This is how I felt. I’ve played, and loved, so many past Zelda games. BoTW and ToTk just don’t interest me like their story driven counterparts. I want a more curated Zelda experience.
Agreed. Twilight Princess is probably my favourite Zelda game, and I’d love to see something similar at some point. I don’t know if we will though, given how successful BotW and TotK have been. I’m not sure if strong storytelling would fit with the open world paradigm.
Didn’t Miyamoto say that this is the new template for Zelda? Or at least something along the lines that this is the direction they will be heading in.
I’m expecting the next to be quite different in some extend (not as equal to BotW/TotK), but I am expecting the open world to be here to stay at least.
I like the idea of more open world games, would still like the dungeons to be a bit stronger, though totk was an improvement. I think a return of the great sea is a natural extension and could give an opportunity for different powers that would be more helpful on the open ocean, kind of like how ascend was a natural complement of caves and the depths. I think keeping autobuild and ultrahand and extending it further to boats or maybe even airships in the endgame would be really neat. Could also see them building on time powers even more. Maybe a return to termina?
I felt like ultrahand and even the towers were too powerful in TOTK. Fine for an end game type improvement, but when you had them from the start it cuts out a lot of the discovery, I think.
I feel like they did everything they could open world wise with TotK, would love something smaller with more focus and detail like Majora's Mask again.
If Nintendo makes a third game based off the BOTW map, I would love to see an expansion of towns/villages. One thing I was slightly disappointed by in TOTK was the lack of new villages. I’d love to see a revitalized castle town as well as repaired villages that were once in ruins. Maybe in that way the third game could have more focus on the different npcs and side quests like Majora’s Mask. I think in that way it would help the world feel more alive and we could see progress on the return to Hyrule at its heyday.
A revitalized castle town is probably the natural next step. We had the world in ruins (BotW), society putting itself back together (TotK) and logically we're approaching some sort of great Hylian restoration that will take place in the third game.
I think they need to find a way to merge the BOTW open world with the more traditional structure of Zelda games. The issue is that those two philosophies are sort of at odds with each other, with BOTW and TOTK not wanting the player to be locked out of anything while exploring the world while the traditional structure has you unlock items throughout the game in order to solve puzzles, which there are much fewer of outside of dungeons. It can work though, if Wind Waker is any indication with its side islands.
Story/progression gating the dungeons is probably the right move. That seems to be what most people want.
The overworld itself is (literally) giant Hyrule Field—a big open space with secrets to explore that connects all of the main story-relevant areas together. But the dungeons themselves don't need to be open/available from the get-go, and it's possible to gate access behind specific story progression or tool access.
I think what we see as far as difference in design is that the BotW/TotK dungeons are nonlinear and relatively gimmick free. In BotW, the one feature of each dungeon was manipulating it's position from the map to make things happen. In TotK, it's your allies' abilities. And then from there, you have X number of things you need to turn on, and then you can proceed to the boss.
The older style, conceptually, isn't so far removed from today, but they go mostly linearly. Instead of finding X number of terminals in whatever order you want, you find a key that opens a path that leads to another key. Halfway through, you find a new tool that allows you to navigate the central gimmick of the dungeon in a different way, leading you to more keys and eventually ending with a big key for the boss room.
If TotK had a linear path from terminal to terminal, and each dungeon featured, say, some sort of unique Zonai device found nowhere else that becomes key to solving the puzzles, that would basically be the old formula people are looking for.
I would like it if their next game would be more traditional 2d style, something akin to Links Awakening. Personally I like both the 2d and 3d style games, so alternating between the two would be great.
For the 3d games I'm not sure for the direction they should take, but I think a blend of the open world style combined with the more traditional dungeons would be great.
I agree that I hope it's different. I have loved playing so many of the Zelda games up until now, but botw wasn't for me. No problem, I figured, I'll just wait a couple years and the next one will be for me! Now I'm nervous that this is what Zelda is now, and I'm stuck going back to old content and replaying if I ever want Zelda again which is a huge bummer. Part of what I love about Zelda is that each game is different according to the gimmicks of the system. These huge open worlds with so many menus and so much storage are a bit overwhelming to me.
They said the BOTW formula is the template for the series for now on, I’m afraid. And I hated it. I didn’t even buy TOTK. But a 2D Zelda can be in the cards for an off team, this has higher chances than a tradicional 3D Zelda for sure.
I honestly think they will probably do this. People still love some of the traditional style games like they might have made on their handheld systems before, and I'm sure Nintendo knows they will be profitable.
I agree that I hope it's different. I have loved playing so many of the Zelda games up until now, but botw wasn't for me. No problem, I figured, I'll just wait a couple years and the next one will be for me! Now I'm nervous that this is what Zelda is now, and I'm stuck going back to old content and replaying if I ever want Zelda again which is a huge bummer. Part of what I love about Zelda is that each game is different according to the gimmicks of the system. These huge open worlds with so many menus and so much storage are a bit overwhelming to me.
I'd love to see what they could do with a Wind Waker-style game nowadays. With how successful they've been at crafting an open world, opening that up to the high seas could be a lot of fun.
This is an interesting thought. I personally don't care for crafting but if you were able to build and design your own ships...that's something that could actually be fun!
With Nintendo, I feel like it's almost impossible to know which way they're going to innovate - but in hindsight it's all so clear. Really the only claim we can almost bet for is they're not going to compete in the graphical fidelity market.
I don't think the openness is the problem. The temples were too short, too easy and too few. The cutscene dialogue was clunky (obviously translated) and too repetitive.
I loved the temples in SS... nothing in TotK's temples felt so atmospheric.
If nintendo keep the exact same formula, a Botw3, then that would be very out of pace for Nintendo and very disappointing. One of the most disappointing parts about Totk is that it's very much botw again, fixed in many ways, with some new ideas. But Nintendo usually like to change things up much more than that.
I very much hope that the creative spark for something different is still there
OoT, considered one of the greatest games of all time, is literally Link to the Past 3d. Majora's mask is like a mod of OoT. WW was a huge deviation, but same dungeon structure. Twilight Princess is OoT, but edgier and with a weird platformer mix that was common in the latter stages of N64 and early Wii.
I'm general, Nintendo iterates on Zelda. I'd love for a Wind Waker 2 a la totk.
ahh i don't know about that, I could probably write a giant nerd rant about how OoT is anything but Link to the Past 3D. From it's combat to world design, story, vibe, pacing, mechanics and yeah dungeon layout, it's all wildly different than what is executed in LttP.
It's one of the things I really loved about the gameboy games and eventually the sequel to LttP, whilst the 3D games happened, there was this direct linage from LttP that kept everything the same, in pocket form.
The two major things I loved about BOTW and TOTK were the flexibility of the puzzle solutions and the story; I think if those aspects can be put into a new world and setting, I would be very happy.
Also in both games if a puzzle is too hard or you’re just not in the mood, you can step away and do something else; I loved this, it lets your mind refresh so to speak. I want the new game to feel this welcoming.
In a later part of Tears of the Kingdom, I was presented with one puzzle. A large object needed to be transported up and to the other side of a large room. There was a big spiraling rail going up to the other side, along with a hook and some Zonai fans. So I thought "Just stick it to the hook and propel it up with fans." Easier said than done, unfortunately, because there were supports along the rail that would stop it from moving further.
But then I remembered I had time powers. So I just grabbed the object, held it up about halfway on the other side for a good 10 seconds, and let it fall. Then I just climbed up the other side, rewound time on the object to lift it back into its midair position, and grabbed it with ultrahand.
What I would absolutely love and they could leverage would be to mix both their new open-world and visual style with going back with the sea and island (and more cartoonish) elements of Wind Waker. I adored that game, where each island had its own flair, this could be expanded upon so much with the new engine.
I like the more metroivania style too of finding an element in a dungeon of island and then having it unlock more possibilities later elsewhere. I feel like giving all the powers and tools at the beginning of the newer games has put a damper on this side of the usual formula.
To speak just to plot, I think there is one direction they could move towards next.
In this series, we have yet to even hear whispers of the Triforce. What was previously a central pillar of prior Zelda games has fallen by the wayside. So, the Triforce can come back.
In Tears of the Kingdom, we learned interesting facts about how dragons are made. We have three dragons who have been there since Breath of the Wild: Dinraal, Farosh, and Naydra, who correspond to the goddesses Din, Farore, and Nayru, who created the Triforce. Presumably, these "goddesses" were people once, who ate secret stones and turned into dragons, and they could be key to unlocking the mysteries of the Triforce. If we can un-draconify them like we did Zelda, it would be interesting to have these entities be actual characters in the story.
As far as threats, it's hard to say. Could bring back old man Demise if they want to stick with the progressively scary Ganon line of villains, but they could easily bring in someone else new or old as well.
Of all the ideas people have replied with so far, this one's my favorite. I had wondered about the other three dragons from the moment I finished the Dragon Tears quest in TotK, and your idea would be a pretty cool way to give a lot more attention to that aspect of the world.
I’ve sat on this idea since the release of Hyrule Historia. And I think it would legitimize the entire crazy timeline, and do what Nintendo must do next to level up Zelda: massively up their story telling. And it combines with this OP idea of the return of the triforce.
This new game does one key thing: it firmly establishes BOTW/TOTK Link as unequivocal successors to the Child Timeline after the hero is victorious in OOT.
BOTW Threequel continues and concludes this Link’s adventure, and is the first Zelda trilogy with Link-Zelda continuity. We’ll call him Blue Link.
After a banger of an opening sequence, Blue Zelda reveals to Blue Link the cause of this “banger sequence” and its solution: there is a relic called the triforce and it must be reunited not only to seal away evil—but to fix space and time, which has been fractured for millennia.
The three dragons—the fairie surrogates—are basically functioning like the TVA (Time Variance Authority) from the Marvel series Loki. Their human forms exist in another realm: the past.
This past is ultimately met.
It is Old Man Link from the Fallen Hero timeline and is the same Link from Zelda II: Adventure of Link. Who is also the same Link from Zelda I. Think Snake from MGS4 Guns of the Patriots, or Logan/Wolverine from the Old Man Logan story.
So this game is the end of a trilogy for Blue Link and Zelda 1 + 2, simultaneously.
And it’s co-op (if desired). As both Links.
The game might as well be called The Legend of Link.
I think sea will come again. Like a BotW focused on island (each having it's own biome), caverns and sea, giant ship battles, etc. Dunno why.
Should they ? Mmmh, my concerns are not about the “yet another open world”, but mostly on the game design of the various things to do and the story to keep player engaged. I have no problems with shrines, I have problems with dozen of them.
I would also love to have many more advanced quests, like MM had. Longer quest that had an actual visual impact. This brings some depth to the universe.
With the success of BotW and TotK, that style of game is probably here to stay. But I would really like to see another more 'grounded' classic 3D Zelda. Not like Skyward Sword. More like Twilight Princess.
I liked the older games more, OoT, TP, and SS. I wild love for them to do something more along the lines of skyrim, where the side quests have a good story rather than little things that don't affect the overall story or direction of the game.
I don't really have an answer for that, I was thinking that myself, where can they take the series from here, but one thing I don't want is another game on same map and continuity. I am loving TotK, but I want to see a new world, and see what the devs can do with it.
As for games like older designs, I haven't played too many older games, so I won't mind those either, but if they do that, they should make that a separate series, like we have different Mario series. Keep one for BotW style games, and one for older styled games, but I don't think they will go that way. I think this is the kind of game they will keep making.
Assuming we get a third game in the botw run, I would love to see link travel back to early Hyrule like Zelda did. Nintendo could use the blueprint of the depths ruins as the backbone for a thriving Zonai civilization. Aboveground would be a truly wild Hyrule similar to what the depths are now. No sky islands as this would predate their creation. Instead we could have a 'dive' feature that lets us visit an ancient Zora, spread out in the waters in and around Hyrule. All new characters (except maybe Raru and friends), but many characters could be ancestors of current characters so they would be familiar in some ways. I would love to see the ability to tame monsters, more complex Zonai devices, and yes, perhaps real dungeons.
Also I could even see a fourth game in this series that totally turns all of the formula on its head. It would actually star Zelda, and she would travel through time to different eras of Hyrule. We'd get to see areas and dungeons from ocarina of time, twilight princess, skyward sword and even many of the 2d titles, redesigned with botw graphics and controls. The focus of the game would be for Zelda to help Link. She must stay out of sight, navigate dungeons to place keys, compasses, maps and/or key weapons that the link of that era will need to defeat whatever evil he faces. I think this would be super cool.
I want a hook shot, for sure. I’ve always thought that a futuristic Zelda would be cool, but maybe that’s jumping the shark. I wish they’d do a new top down—although I’d settle for remakes in the vein of the new links awakening.
TOTK is really a perfect game, except I do wish that the dungeons were longer and that there were more of them.
I’d like to see more open world games for sure. How about along with that, we get some 3d re-imaginings of the original Zelda and Zelda 2? The graphics could be similar to that of the remake of Link’s Awakening.
botw was already a pseudo-reimagining of zelda 1, as per the devs. on the other hand, it would be interesting to see them do something with zelda 2, however. ninty alternates between ignoring that game and not.
I hope they go a really strange route. Like, how Mario Wonder looks like some kind of zany trip. Just really hit us with something out of left field and creative.
#1 hopefully a new map in whatever the next game is
In BOTW I spent months exploring the world, eventually getting every shrine, just enjoying the beautiful landscapes. BOTW definitely had some detriments but the exploration of the world eclipsed those down sides. I remember my starting experiences well. The initial release trailers, E3, looking out from the great plateau at this giant world. Eager to get out an explore. My hero's journey touches most parts of the map.
For me, TOTK doesn't have that same spark to explore. I even completed the game without unlocking all the map first, despite taking my time. But I got to the point where I felt the next step was to beat ganondorf. In comparison to BOTW I basically feel like I'm done with the game now.
#2
I think they can continue to improve the narrative even in an open world experience. I think you can see the primitive pieces in TOTKs quests from purah which could be expanded further for more narrative and maybe even make a more linear experience in tackling dungeons.
I do not think they will go back to linear adventures. I hope that the experience that they have gained in TOTK will allow them to integrate linear sections into open world zeldas. The benefits of linear sections being the ability to teach something and then ramp up the difficulty in applying it.
#3 better temple
The temples in TOTK were
TOTK
A bit simplistic and straightforward. The goron and gerudo ones were the best, but even then it would be good if the temples themselves had more meat to them.
I understand that part of the 'temple' now is just about unlocking it but I feel like we had that in twilight princess + a dungeon.
There are a lot of possibilities I think for a semi-open temple.
Imagine having even four temples which were similar to the great plateau - areas designed to sandbox and let you muck about solving puzzles but with constraints.
Or just a continued evolution of the designs from BOTW -> TOTK, but have more terminals, branching paths and puzzles and unique designed combat challenges. Add in a new ability which you use to solve the dungeon and need it to get into the next one?
TLDR
Needs new map.
Likely to stay open world
Hopefully keep evolving open world and add in more linear or more constrained areas including better temples
Yeah the temples were kind of too simple and quick. Its been decades since I’ve played the older 3D zeldas but I remember them being somewhat more complex than these were. Oh man, and the Fire Temple lets you just build your hover bike and skip the whole puzzle system…
I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, it's a great formula, and many current Zelda fans have grown up with and have known little else (except maybe Skyward Sword HD). Nintendo has had great success with it, so I can't imagine they'd depart from it soon, as much as attempting to predict Nintendo is a futile endeavour. On the other, I have my gripes with it, and I dearly miss the classic formula.
I think at the very least, they're going to turn this into a trilogy within the same Hyrule. I don't know if it's my imagination, but the oceans and Eventide Island seemed a lot more fleshed out this time around, so maybe they'll do a Wind Waker type thing to be a counterpart like BotW is to Zelda 1 and TotK is to OoT/MM.
Based on some of the BotW concept art, it's clear the team is capable of coming up with a lot of ideas. The "Modern" Zelda concept almost certainly inspired the Master Cycle DLC, and the "Hyrule Invasion" concept potentially also inspired the Zonai stuff. So I think they'll come up with neat stuff regardless.
I mean, there's the land around Hyrule, and also the oceans as I was hinting in my comment. Yona is also apparently from another domain, which could perhaps a sea based one? They could expand the current Hyrule via the rivers and lakes as well as an even further restored Hyrule, perhaps expanding some of the towns and villages. As for story, I feel like they keep hinting at the Triforce without actually implementing it fully, so maybe that?
Deeper depths or higher sky also seems possible, though I don't think they'd do that, as much as they feel prototypical to some degree. Seeing the original home of the Zonai would be cool though, if it's still there extremely high up. Perhaps a proper dark world? I know the Depths are a pseudo-implementation of that, but even so.
If the want to keep on the "freedom" route they could add mechanics to destroy/build the scenario. Destroying rocks in some TOTK caves gave me Minecraft vibes. They could allow players to dig anywhere. Also they could generate the world procedurally so we'll move from the current each player experience Hyrule in a different way to each player actually getting a different Hyrule.
I personally don't like much the Zeldas on the Switch. I'd rather get a more classic Zelda that follows the item-dungeon-item-dungeon pattern.
I'd like to see a tighter Zelda/Link fusion, where Zelda's time powers are weaved more into Links combat.
A hard game where Link dies and dies and dies, but Zelda keeps rewinding time and bringing him back to life, where he learns from his mistakes (similar to PoP:SoT).
As the game progresses and the combat gets harder, Link gains the ability to slow down time in order to better plan his attacks as they happen. He's not moving super fast like the Flash when time is slowed, for he is slowed down too, but he can simply react better; dodge a sword by anticipation, plan a jump off an enemy's head with better timing, turn a dodge under a weapon into an attack in the same stride, all the while preserving his momentum.
By the end of the game, he can literally stop time, and he does so endlessly at the game credits, as its the only way to free Zelda from her time prison. Zelda and Link effectively switch places, and the next game is Zelda trying to free Link
I've heard that Illumination is already in talks with Nintendo on a Zelda movie. Sounds like the Mario movie did well enough that Nintendo wants to make more.
In the aftermath of TotK, the world is in a sorry state. The sky islands are falling, violent quakes closed the access to the depths, and embers of darkness (fragments of the secret stone last held by Ganondorf) have fallen to the land and created fields of distortion where the present world has been over written by a section of the past. The worst are the dungeons, where the fragments empower new boss monsters.
Link and Zelda team up together to restore Hyrule with the new gameplay gimmick being the ability to swap between them. Link as a swordsman and Zelda with time powers (some inspiration from Bioshock infinite’s Elizabeth).
I hope the success of BotW and TotK doesn't mean we'll never get another traditional Zelda game.
I'm in the camp of people who love the traditional Zelda formula, and I was sorely disappointed with BotW to the point that I lost all interest in TotK and will probably not buy another zelda game if they continue the new formula.
Perhaps Nintendo could incorporate both formulas in some way, or maybe alternate between traditional Zelda and new Zelda games in the future?
I get what you're saying and I'd be disappointed if they stopped doing older style zelda games just like you. But I also the BotW and TotK are amazing games in their own right and you're missing out. You should give them a shot.
I did try BotW. Finished it, even. But I didn’t enjoy it, sadly, which leaves me in the position I’m in. I’m not inclined to try TotK given it is very similar to its predecessor.
They would need two different studios at that point: one developing the nostalgic style and the other continuing the BotW style.
As someone else mentioned BotW style with same map but different time is a similar formula which will work while they finish it their elements theme, but I'd l love to explore a whole new map too!
Yeah, I’m not sure how they’d even handle it or if it would be at all doable. The thing I disliked most about BotW is that there are no dungeons as there usually were, and you get all your “gadgets” from the get go. If Nintendo could perhaps work on those two aspects while keeping the open world, I might be more of a fan of the game.