Israel is a terrorist state.
Its definitely an apartheid state. Unlike South Africa the ruling ethnicity is the majority. They've been at war with the minority since it's inception since that meant physically displacing people who didn't want to leave. I don't believe peace was ever an option Israel honestly considered.
While there surely is reason to criticize Israel on many levels I don't understand what people like you expect what Israel or any other state would do if there was a group (Hamas, which is designated as terrorist by many Democratic countries) raiding it's territory and kills and kidnaps a number of it's citizen.
just to put in relation 1.400/10.000.000 Israelis would equal 46.000 USA citizen (333.000.000 inhabitants). when applying this scale this would be much worse than 9/11.
Again, I think Israel should rightfully be criticized for many things, but clearing out Hamas makes sense when viewed as it's own topic. And looking at the number of high civilian casualties in Gaza they are being criticized even by the USA, you still have to consider that Hamas are hiding in civilian infrastructure on purpose to use them as human shields. Also while the numbers of casualties in Gaza are being reported from inside Gaza you would not know how many of them are actually part of Hamas. They won't give you this information.
Anyway, the whole middle east is fucked up and I wish that they could finally all live in peace and ditch their religious fanaticism so the few can not exploit the religious for their fascist cause whether it be Muslim, Christian or Jewish.
It also doesn't help that Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians either. For example when they shoot rockets and place the rocket launcher next to a hospital or school, they know it's going to be hit by Israel at some point.
I get the reasons for both parties, but fighting isn't going to resolve this, they have both tried for wat too long. Divide the country and get all the other nations to recognize both countries is the only thing that could work (I believe).
Being reasonable and understanding things are complicated and nuanced isn't going to happen on Lemmy.
The nutters here are going to sit on a Hamas propaganda source like Al Jazeera, knee-jerk to every article designed to drum up hatred and dumb down the situation, and go hop in bed with every anti-semite masquerading as the left that they can find. All the while pretending this conflict exists in a vacuum and lately even blaming the deaths on the 7th on Israel in their comments.
I appreciate your attempt to bring rationality and reason to the discussion, but you're wasting your time on this shithole.
Hmmm...
So in other words if this killing helps rooting out Hamas then it is all justified. Because obviously the next generation of Palestinians will be thankful that their siblings, parents, grandparents where rooted out of their homes or slaughtered in the name of anti-terrorism action as collateral damage. Surely nobody growing up without prospects and has to deal with such hardships will wabt any revenge or justice for their sufferings. Surely this will not radicalize the middle east any further. In fact they should be grateful that they are honored to die in the name of Israëls justice.
If it wasn't clear this is obviously sarcastic..
Read up on operation cast lead. That is what human shields looks like, and it wasn't the Palestinians that did it.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate
What do I expect them to do? Not 'mow the grass' every couple of years. Not use soldiers to protect murderers as the 'settlers', sorry, thieves go in and steal more of west bank. Somewhere that has no hamas, by the by.
What do I expect them to do? Not commit genocide. That's what I expect.
I also expect them not to be a white supremacist apartheid ethno state, but I know that one isn't possible, just as I know that it isn't possible to not expect them to be terrorists or commit the Nakba, or to socialize with the Irgun.
Fuck off you genocide excuser.
raiding it's territory and kills and kidnaps a number of it's citizen.
As Israel has done to Palistinians already for years?
But that just gets swept under the carpet when Israel does it.
Israels actions standing over the Palestine should have had them classed as terrorists long ago.
Hamas is no better though, leaving 2 terrorist organisations fighting while innocents suffer.
The only good guys in this conflict are the innocent uninvolved citizens on all sides. Aside from that, everyone involved, including those on the ground on the conflict, those in the situation rooms, and those both funding and manipulating the situation from outside are all the bad guys.
Anyone who tries to paint this as a simple moral conclusion, and not as one part in one of the most complicated and difficult geopolitical situations on the entire planet, is either an idiot or part of a propaganda campaign, knowingly or not. These trite oversimplifications are insultingly reductive to the situation, do nothing to help any of the actual potential victims, and only serve to foster both misinformed reductive thinking and harmful attitudes towards groups without the full context to reconcile these impressions.
There is an information war being waged by many forces on all sides of this conflict right now; be wary of anyone who encourages reductive thinking on complex issues when lives are on the line.
Hey.
You're 100% right, and your view aligns very closely with mine. It's also very well worded; nicely done.
I'm extremely frustrated with the loss of innocent lives. I realize my meme is oversimplifying, but that is inherit to the format of memes themselves. In this case my meme serves to vent my frustrations with an appalling situation and to serve as a jumping off point for deeper conversations.
No matter the frothing at the mouth, anyone not directly involved in the decision making process of this 'war' is essentially powerless. We can pressure our governments to not fund a given side, but that's about the extent of it.
It's pretty fucking shitty.
Anyone who speaks against Israel in this "fight": Cancelled. And it's gotten so you don't even need to say the magic word: "antisemite".
God forgive me, but maybe the "Jews rule the world" nuts weren't so wrong after all.
Banking, Hollywood, Ivy League schools, major journalists and news outlets, my own President, all of them pro-Israel no matter what.
Show me I'm wrong, stop me, take my beer away, come over to my house and punch me in the face, but get me off this conspiracy train. I don't know that I've ever seen the fruitcakes come so close to truth.
Maybe, just maybe it's an alignment of ideology and geopolitical interests across the ruling class rather than genetics.
Maybe Jews were pushed into usury, maybe they're over-represented in certain spaces like Ivy League schools because they're wealthier on average, which buys a better education and more opportunities, perpetuating that wealth and success.
Pretty much anything the Nazis blame on Jewish genetics can easily be boiled down to class intetests without the weird blood libel conspiracism and insistence everyone they don't like is a Jew.
Of course it's political! Of course it's not genetic! FFS, I'm not retarded.
How about "Israelites" are running shit in a shadowy conspiracy? That tastes almost as foul in my mouth. But I can sure see where the nuts are coming from.
And see where you're going with this? Anti-Nazi and racism talk. I'm neither a Nazi nor a racist, and you can check every post I've ever made, here or on reddit (/u/shalafi71). Every single one. Go back 11-years on reddit if you like.
But see how the conversation went that way when I started talking about Israel and Jews? And to be clear; I do NOT wish to conflate the two. But it's easy to see how many (most?) folks do?
Jews were pushed into usury, maybe they're over-represented in certain spaces like Ivy League schools because they're wealthier on average, which buys a better education and more opportunities, perpetuating that wealth and success
Any anyone joining this discussion, read that over and over again, because it's true and that's how it worked out. We decry this sort of thing, uh, usually, but it's OK because the Jews have been the underdogs for 2,000+ years? Maybe? I've always been a cheerleader for Jews and Israel. I really don't know what to think anymore.
To get back on point, here's what I'm seeing, when my eyeballs can get past the in-your-face genocide:
Got any sort of influence in the 1st world? Spoken against Israel lately? Still got a job? Yes, yes, no.
Anything in that last sentence strike anyone false?
That's because you ignore everything that has happened in Palestine unless it's connected to Israel.
It has nothing to do with "Jews controlling the world" or other conspiracy theories. It's that when you are living in a "western" culture you are more aligned with the culture of Israel (women's rights, rights for LGBTQ people, at least the hope for democracy, protection of citizens instead of using them as propaganda tools, etc.).
That is why many western politicians and media rather reluctantly call out Israel on it's war crimes.
Imagine when what many seem to wish comes true and Israel is abolished. The whole area becomes Palestine. Then we will have another country where people suffer under a religious zealot leadership. No rights for women or LGBTQ, no schools that educate their children to become free thinkers, no democracy or working for a better future, etc.
"I...HAVE... THE...RIGHT...TO...DEFEND...MYSELF"
Krusty is Jewish, perfect fitting meme
Lmao! I forgot about that. Perfect.
