Should we ban scat fetish?

Definitely not a fan of scat, and I definitely don't want to see it on my feed, but I feel like it's my job as a user to block the stuff I want to avoid. If you guys want to implement a "NSFW+" feature that we can use to mass-block the content that goes past the normal NSFW limits, great, but I don't think it should be banned just because some people really don't like it.

I don't consume this sort of content, but in general, I don't think "democracy" is the best way to judge niche fetishes. Decades ago, the majority would have voted to exclude gay porn. I personally enjoy hotwife and cuckold content. I've been pushed out of communities where the thought of ones partner sleeping with someone else makes a lot of people uncomfortable. When I see the community voting for or against fetishes it makes me uncomfortable, because I wonder when one of my kinks is next.

Voting on content inclusion or inclusion will lead to a tyranny of the majority. Kink acceptance should not be a popularity contest. Instead we should seek a principles based approach that embraces inclusion and tolerance while still staying within the bounds of the law. At the same time we should encourage the lemmy devs to build features that allow users to avoid content they don't want to see so that we don't need a heavy handed top level approach.

kinda surprising to see voting is leaning towards ban. if scat won't be on lemmynsfw, where else is it supposed to be in?

Block the community if you don't like the fetish, but banning scat makes no sense to me.

What's the issue with scat porn?

Is it illegal or something?

If it's not illegal then on what grounds is it being banned?

I'm not in favor of banning things that aren't illegal (or illegal adjacent like loli). It would be awesome to be able to automatically filter things like scat, but outright banning it in my mind sends the message that this instance is not friendly to niche communities.

There are a lot of niche communities on here, anal, pregnant, trans, tiny tits, milf, gay. Anyone could find these offensive. If this instance isn't friendly to scat, it shouldn't be friendly to those communities.

Ban fetishes that are illegal or hurt people. Otherwise, let people filter them. That's my two cents.

Admin over at Yiffit here.

We have a temporary ban on content that is perfectly legal but which could be really weird to remote admins and moderators for at least 2 months in hopes that better moderation tools will appear so that remote instances can hide certain content without having to defederate from us completely.

I see no legitimate justification for straight banning it tbh.

I definitely don't want to browse this server (lemmy@nsfw) and come across scat in my timeline. I support banning it. People that enjoy it can set up their own server for it, and server admins can choose to federate or defederate to it.

VPN Votes not allowed.

My vote is that we ban it here. I think the best solution for these issues is to have at least two NSFW instances. One that's more tightly moderated and more socially acceptable, and a second that's run with a more Libertarian wildboi flair. Business up front, party in the back. Maybe call the other one something like LemmyTrueNSFW, or LemmyWildNSFW, or something like that. This is how Federation achieves censorship-resistance. It allows a space for those on the fringe, while preventing the fringe from overwhelming the normie majority.

I'm seeing a lot of discussion here and just want to chip in and lay down my argument for scat.

Banning it is really not okay. Unlike gore which clearly has significant ethical issues, scat causes no harm and is simply disliked by many people. Scat is already banned in many places of discussion, meaning that people in this fetish are forced to gather in places where actual child porn and bestiality is, because they literally have no other choice.

Please throw us a lifeline. Don't make us go to a scummy instance full of creeps and actual pedophiles.

I really love this community, and I want to stay a part of it with you all! Let us have our safe haven, there aren't many places out there like this ❤

Kinda confused why there's a vote on this tbh. Just block the community if you don't like it? That's kinda on the end user.

Like, Imma be real, I probably have the biggest community block list of any user on the instance, but that's mainly because I'm ace and here for the lewd stuff rather than the sexually explicit stuff. I know I'm not the target demographic of this instance overall, but if there's an option for people to filter the content out they should use it.

I'm disappointed to see that voting is leaning towards a ban. I'm not remotely interested in scat, but it isn't a big deal to block those communities, as I was doing before they were shut down.

I guess someone could make lemmyscat.com, targeting both the kink and Lemmy users with feline pets.

This sets a very dangerous precedent. Banning any legal consenting type of nsfw material leads this instance down the road to pure vanilla "gonewild".

It's another of those things where it won't be problem once lemmy develops more.

Right now, if I'm scrolling all, I can get hit with a face full of scat before I can implement a block. Which is a major problem for anyone using anything but jerboa or web, since none of the other apps can block things yet.

Lemmy doesn't have a flair system to auto filter things preemptively (though I think the connect app does it an the app).

I'm not a prude. I used to be a nurse's assistant, so nudity is meh to be, and I've seen more feces than is fair. I've had more feces on me than most people ever see in their life, tbh. But it would be very nice to not have to run across it because someone here made a brand new c/ that I haven't blocked yet. And again, and again, and again.

Hell, all the damn furry futa is at least funny for someone that isn't into the kink. But, for fucking real, I have seen all the shit I want to see in my life. That should be opt in only kink, you feel me? I can't opt out of seeing it the first time. So, yeah, maybe the idea of someone making an extreme kink instance that's easier to avoid since everyone will defederate it while leaving this one alone is a good idea.

Just saying, there are some things that are just not going to be welcomed by other instances. Scat is one that's likely to cause more trouble than it's worth.

It’s not for me but who I am I to judge. If it were possible to stop it appearing in “all” that would be ideal but that’s not how lemmy works I know.

I don't like it, but I don't think it should be banned. Why is pissing and piss drinking allowed, but the other end not? I can't believe I'm defending shit (pun intended).

Off-topic, what happened to the rules regarding underage hentai? I saw the voting/discussion posts get purged because "enough drama", but are the rules still in-effect? Are any characters aged up still banned?

I mean if we are banning individual fetishes, where do you draw the line...

Not Safe For Life has never to my knowledge conventionally included scat/extreme fetishes. I've always heard it used to describe things like gore, death, etc.

One other issue with voting on weather fetishes are acceptable is you risk the stability of other subs. For example if people recognize that they can get fetishes tagged as nsfl and removed what happens when a conservative group comes in and targets the multiple trans communities we have here stating they are nsfl. And after that they could reasonably expand that to futas. And so on...

Brooo, we're so getting defederated.

Like, fr, I vote to ban it and this is why. An instance that allows gore and scat is almost definitely only going to be federated with other such instances. That stuff seriously needs its own instance, just for the safety of every other, more standard community. If scat shows in the all feed of another instance just one time, this instance will be instantly dead.

Live & let live, provided it’s all between consenting adults.

That said, I don’t want to see it. Or various other things that tend to spawn countless communities on this and other sites - eg hentai, foot fetish, assorted bodily fluids eg. I’d love a mandatory tagging or categorisation feature that lets us pre-emptively block entire categories of community without needing to hide them one by one as they pop up.

Lemmy REALLY needs a way to separate communities so they don't appear in all. I completely agree that people shouldn't have to see it on the front page or new, and shouldn't have to block 15 different communities to see a halfway decent front page.

I want to see this content, and I'm willing to search for it. I should be able to to seek it out but not force everyone else to see it. I'd still like it to be in this instance though. It's hard to find NSFW instances in general, let alone one that caters to one or two specific kinks.

This is especially important if people are defederating. I don't mind seeking it out, but I need to be able to seek it out.

Content that most people consider extreme needs to be opt-in for viewers. Eg I don’t want to see content like this in the new/active feeds. Of course users can block it, but I don’t think that’s enough. Think if a new user joins and sees the new feed filled with content they are uncomfortable with.

Lemmy really needs a way to filter sensitive communities so content like this can be hidden away from feeds/federation unless users explicitly want to see it.

I feel like scat content is something people actively seek out if they are interested, and avoid if they are not. So, it is probably better if it was its own thing that didn't end up in the "general" nsfw community, and instead stayed under its own niche umbrella. I don't necessarily have a solution for this, but scat and various other kinds of niche content should probably either have its own community or be some sort of opt-in thing.

I agree it NSFL according to me, but my opinions don't count for others. I think it should be its own community and that was one thing I loved about reddit. You want gw look up gw, you want milf go to milf.

It's not something I personally want to see, but I can always block communities I don't want to be exposed to and I'm not aware of any legal complications, so I don't see any reason to ban it outright.

I would ban it temporarily at least until it can be added to NSFL or there is something in place like a "normie" filter. So that would be like when you first log in after creating your account lemmy would "ask" you "Do you wanna ban these boards?" And then a list of the boards with check/unchecked marks and a description of what the fetish/boards is about. So a pre-ban of boards that is undesired by most people.

That way lemmynsfw users wouldn't have peoples eyes pierced by a close up of a someone taking a dump.

I think it shouldn't be banned. It's not my thing and I don't understand it at all but that doesn't mean it's harmful or unethical. It's looked down on but as long as it's educated, consenting adults, it's not the same as gore. It's not illegal. What would be the argument to have it banned? Just because it's extreme enough to be listed as nsfl instead of nsfw? Who made that call? Seems like an arbitrary line to draw. It's easy enough to just block content we don't want to see, right?

I'm new to the Lemmy stuff, but if you can fliter/block stuff you don't want to see, I would say let it stay.

I’m not into scat but I think it should be allowed.

Shit like that is not for me. It is my responsibility to block that bullshit.

Banning stuff or anything you disagree with is a dark hole.

Does anyone remember the FART HAMMER?

I really hope that Lemmy implements better moderation and content restriction tools, and maybe CWs like Masto has. I don't think that scat is NSFL, but I also think it may be wise to restrict certain fetishes like scat, hot lunch, blood, extreme bdsm, CNC etc until there are better tools to manage what shows up in a feed. I am not judging those fetishes, and if they belong anywhere they belong here, but having that stuff appearing on the front page or the universal feed on another instance without warnings or ways to restrict that content in the feed is going to get us defederated. It's not fair, but it's still true.

If there was an opt-in switch for extreme fetishes, such that the content wasn't federated and didn't appear on your feed unless you opt-in, that might be a good technical solution.

The majority should not police the fetish of some because they don't like it. If its legal, don't ban it.

Is there no quarantine like option. A higher or different tier of NSFW. I don't really care as long as it's legal and moderated and I don't have to see shit

Allow it, but only within their defined communities, I don't wanna see scat in places like c/gonewild or other more vanilla/mainstream communities

It’s not my cup of tea and I consider it NSFL as well but it isn’t illegal. I can block the content on my end as I have already done.

Just a user here, but I'd say a small subset of users in other instances are already asking to defederate from this instance for some of the basic communities that show up, like gonewild. I just don't see allowing a fetish "at this time" being helpful to the situation.

The mod tools are not there yet, even if you added the ability to opt-in on just this instance. If someone subscribes to the community from a different instance it will show up for ALL USERS on the all feed for that instance. And well, thats just shitty (pun intended) for those who don't like the kink but want to see nsfw communities. Now you've put the problem on the users who must choose to block the community.

So, while I'm a big supporter of kinks, I am not in support of allowing it on lemmy today. voted accordingly.

basic community approach

I think that lemmy is basically a place where people who have the same interests come together. These commonalities are organized through communities. This ensures that anyone who wants to contribute something to the topic can join them. **But at the same time, and more importantly for me, it also means I can stay away from a topic if I don't like the topic. **

My derivation from it

The platform with a focus on #nsfw is a place where basically everyone can organize their topics in communities. It's an open, liberal place, a place of freedom of expression. Everyone can communicate their views.

But, and this is a very important but for me!: The platform and the operators have a social responsibility. They face this by setting rules according to which certain content is not desired on the platform. For me, the most important principle is legality. I as a person, and probably others feel the same way, do not want to be on a platform that publishes or tolerates prohibited / illegal / borderline content. Banning these topics is an effective technique, although it may require community involvement to bring such content to attention. I would therefore find it wrong to say that the operator alone is responsible.

Don't ban at any cost

The thin red line between bans to keep the community "clean" and to prevent freedom of expression is a challenge in many topics. For me personally, there are several "lines" that I use as a guide. The absolute line is what is illegal by law. Based on this, I sort out what is not of interest to me because I don't want to deal with the topic / I don't like it. At the same time, I think that the community concept creates a solution in which people with any #nsfw interests can get together without it affecting me in any way. No matter how kinky one finds it, another may find finding like-minded people in a niche particularly helpful.

personal opinion

So I don't think that legal content should be banned in principle. But I think it's useful to give the user the ability to personally filter out unwanted content. (I really appreciate the Mastodon concept, which allows me to hide certain terms or tags in the settings, and I use it intensively.) So far, I've managed with lemmy in such a way that my feed only shows the subscribed communities. That's why I haven't needed the function to hide entire communities yet. But I assume that the day will come and as a user I don't think it's a bad thing at all to actively take care of myself that I don't see things that I personally don't find beautiful. It's my responsibility to do that and I think it's the right thing to do.

no matter what #nsfw inclinations

I intentionally didn't address #scat in writing the post itself beacuse it is less important to me than how we want to deal with content in general. Personally, I'm not a fan of scat, but that doesn't mean I don't feel concerned with the question. Because it could be that tomorrow there will be a vote on another #nsfw niche topic which I really love. That's why I'm looking for a solution that restricts the lemmynsfw as little as possible and still ensures that it remains a place for everyone.

someone explain to me how this is different from banning gay porn?

Allow it. If I have to look at gay furry porn you fuckers can deal with scat.

Just let them have their own community. If this is supposed to be THE goto NSFW lemmy instance you shouldn't ban NSFW content as long as it doesn't break any laws.

I assume scat means shit? Poop? Is that right?

This should be entirely up to the people that have to moderate it, as they're the ones who are being forced to view the content

It's not for me but as long as it's clearly labelled, can be blocked by anyone who doesn't want to see that stuff, and there aren't dozens of them popping up every day then I don't see a problem with allowing it.

Yeah fuck i want some scat, i wanna see shit.

Same argument of the gore ban applies: https://feddit.it/comment/128064

The main problem with NSFL is that you should only find it if you're looking for it. I have noproblemi with it once better mod tools, instance or community options pop up with lemmy updates. As of now, I vote to ban it

What about a default block list?

You could make it an option on signup.

As long as it stays on dedicated communities, I don't really care if it sticks around. I just block the community from showing up on my feed.

Not a fan of scat, but it's harmless to me so I'm in favor of allowing it but blocking it on my own.

I consider myself someone who thinks consenting individuals should be able to do what they want together to a far reaching extent... BUT this is a difficult fetish to think about because it's demonstrably physically harmful to the health of those with the fetish. If a consenting act between to adult individuals causes lasting harm to an individual it goes beyond the boundaries of what I consider what should be acceptable. I'd even consider it to fall within "Not Safe For Life" because technically scat fetish is literally "not safe for life" and is unhealthy. There are many health issues that arise from indulging in that fetish. So in this regard, I am voting to ban it.

Keep the ban

Not personally my kink (kinda the opposite actually) but I'm loving all the perverts here having a constructive conversation about poop porn lol.

Lemmy on y'all

If people want to eat the poopoo, let them. It's none of my business.

I'm on a tracker that allows scat and there's a userscript to filter it out based on tags. Seems to work well for everyone. Maybe there's a similar solution for Lemmy?

Ban it. That's disgusting. They have other places they can go to. Weird porn will kill the federverse.

Can someone link the definition of NSFL? The one I'm familiar with would not cover this.

As a side note, I recognize that the limitations and immaturity of the tools/code will force us to make rules and exceptions we don't like. Even if it is banned, it should be revisited later when better capabilities are available

I wish there was a way to disable the local feed.

Server is working smooth btw.

Tbh I'd rather not see it, and feel like it falls under nsfl (which doesn't have to be illegal either).

I understand that it's a thing, but as someone else described it, it's like nsfw+. There's a huge range of nsfw from bikini shots to this or other stuff.

I guess I can always just watch the subscribed feed but that prevents natural discovery, and it's not the default.

So I suggest... Asking people to refrain from posting it for the time being until better filters exist. It's not exactly fair I know, but it's not like it's the only category that's questionable like that.

Would you federate with another instance hosting this sort of data if it gets banned?

Well if it passes, individuals have the power to block the communities which I know I'll be doing immediately so I don't see any of it. Then, if other instances start defederating from lemmynsfw, I can say "I told you so!", delete my account here, and go elsewhere. 😀 👍

The only way is yes or no?, cos if it is i didn't see anything more than what society has already see, what about if you let live that content just in that specific community, if someone join then they will see it if someone don't then don't, just defederate the community for the whole instance but let people who like it to enjoy it.

Gods, please