DOJ Describes Plan To Denaturalize Citizens on Scale That Has Never Been Tried
DOJ Describes Plan To Denaturalize Citizens on Scale That Has Never Been Tried
This article is part of TPM Cafe, TPM’s home for opinion and news...
Native-born Americans never have to worry about losing their citizenship, no matter what they do.
that is far too confident a statement
They're called Indians for a reason. So we're going to deport them to ..........throws a dart at a map the Indian Ocean.
But where will the next 25 space x rockets crash?
Every time I see articles like this, I think:
This was easily avoidable.
I'd like to point out a few things in this legal logic bomb here. I'm not a lawyer either but...
- The administration declared being illegal a crime even though it is a civil matter so they can create this illegal loophole.
- The article states that that removal of citizenship for criminal charges would allow trial by jury.
- The current administration is making denaturalization go through civil court to strip defendants of any right to a trial by jury or lawyers if they can't afford one.
However, if all defendants tried in civil court solely on the charge of being here illegally, then they are not a criminal for being illegal by their own definition because they are in civil court. Even if they are being busted for a crime other than being illegal, they still have to go through the criminal court process for denaturalization which is by a trial with jury. I'm going insane trying to follow this cluster fuck of logic. --
You think being white and middle class will save you? Bullshit. We're all on the menu.
Cuban's and Venezuelan's are the main targets with this. And they overwhelmingly voted for Trump. (because a lot of them are far right refugees that fled Communist dictatorships) They thought a far right government in the US was on their side. FAFO.
I dIdN’t vOtE fOr tHiS.
Eeeyep. And my reply to them?
"You did. You absofuckinglutely did. History has proven time and time and time and (four hours later) time again that right-wing dictatorships do EXACTLY what the Shitgibbon's administration is doing. You voted for it. You just hoped it'd happen to the people you didn't like. News flash. They don't like you. So, pack your bags and drop your shorts. The Dildo of Consequences has arrived, and as usual, it is not lubed. Enjoy!!!"
As a naturalized Venezuelan I wish these MF two in the thoughts and one in the prayers.
This is extra satisfying considering how many of those that fled are actually just evil fascist capitalists. FAFO indeed.
Yup. When people point to the small percentage of Black Americans and Hispanic Americans t that vote republican it's solely because of the American Cuban and American Venezuelan population. They were wishing and hoping they'd at least get to be house slaves. (Historically, house slaves lives were just as brutal as manual labor slaves. The brutality was more sexual and psychological focused.) But the oligarchy doesn't care anymore, if they can get white slaves that's what they'll go with. It's honestly shocking to see poor white Americans faces when they realized they were also expected to work the fields along black Americans ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
While I hate what's happening to (gestures broadly) there is a bright side, dark as it may be to look at it this way.
Most of the people currently being targeted tend to vote Republican, so there will be less of those people to vote, and the ones still in the country come election day have a higher chance of not voting or flipping against the Republicans.
Also more and more non-minority maga are saying "I didn't vote for this" and getting hurt by these policies. If just a small portion of those gets out from under the brainwashing and either doesn't vote or votes 3rd party instead that could also cost Republicans races.
Margins were tight in a fair amount of races last cycle, house, senate, and president. If elections are allowed and there's no tampering with votes, the Republicans stand a good chance of losing the house in 26 and the white house in 28. There's also state governments to look at but I don't want to write a small novel in the comments.
I doubt that. Perhaps eventually, but you first deport the opponents voters.
🤔But maybe they're that stupid.
Your doubt doesn't change facts. You have the internet. Use it.
The government can only do this in specific situations. It must prove someone “illegally procured” citizenship by not meeting the requirements, or that they lied or hid important facts during the citizenship process.
Civil suit. Can anyone file a complaint?
Yes, but they'll deport first. You can appeal from wherever.
I'm thinking of citizens filing complaints about emerald mine nepo babies and models on genius visas
I hope you Americans are happy letting these people remain power, happy letting this happen.
There are processes in place to deal with this.
What we have is a lack of fortitude.
I take comfort in knowing that, if I live a normal lifespan, Trump will die in my lifetime. Unfortunately, all the hatred and bigotry won't die with him.
If it isn't Mussolini style I'll be disappointed, I can't lie.
We all will.
He's absolutely a figurehead. Dozens of people are lining up to be the face of a much bigger fascist coalition.
The cultural relief felt when thatcher died was palpable, and I wasn't even alive when she was actively fucking the country.
I lived near Brixton, South London. There was an immediate street party.
It's going to get worse as he gets replaced aby a more competent facist.
That was probably one reason why Hitler wasn’t assassinated by the allies. OTOH, the death of Franco (but to old age!) meant the end of fascism in Spain. When a dictator dies, there’s always a chance for better.
I have theories about what may happen when Trump inevitably dies. 1. The best case scenario is Trump dies, and his whole empire just slowly fizzles out and goes away. 2. Trump dies, and then the true religion of Trump begins much in the same way as Jesus when he was crucified, and his supporters believed that he will rise from the grave, bringing about a new apocalypse and judgment for the non-believers. 3. Trump dies and a new vicious wave of domestic terrorism breaks out all over the country if not, the globe. 4. Trump dies and his supporters go full Jonestown and commit mass suicide. 5. Trump dies and his supporters believe that he will reincarnate much like the Dalai Lama bringing forth a new group of charlatans and snake oil salesman, believing that they are the reincarnation of Trump starting a new way of life and a new cult of Trump. 6. Trump dies and his supporters do not believe it in and reported sightings of him being alive will exist far after the fact much the same way as Elvis.
Of all the people for the dipshits to rally around, they picked this failed game show host. It's so very much stupider than I could have possibly imagined. I sort of get how they lionized Ronnie Raygun, despite how awful he was for this country and so on....the veneer at least seems halfway decent and he at least pretended to love this country and those that live in it.
Taco has just a complete disregard for everything good about this country and hates everyone. What is there to like about that?
I’m hoping for 4 but realistically I think it’ll be 5 but with a twist. They’ll have to find and agree to 1 leader, and internal fighting and splitting of the cult will begin. Whether or not they’re able to pick a leader will depend on how long t has left to live - he hasn’t publicly declared who is next in line and there isn’t anyone else that’s anywhere close to leading maga. If he dies today maga will be fucked.
Well, there are conspiracy theories Hitler didn't die and he fled to Argentina. Even if that were true I think he'd be dead by now
I won't be surprised if he is made a religious prophet by certain Christianity sects.
I believe Trump is just the warm up. Full on religious hegemony is yet to come.
This is what you voted for protest-non-voters.
People facing denaturalization get no free lawyer, meaning poor defendants often face the government alone. There’s no jury trial — just a judge deciding whether someone deserves to remain American. The burden of proof is lower — “clear and convincing evidence” instead of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Most important, there’s no time limit, so the government can go back decades to build cases.
Exactly... don't blame the billionaires, oligarchs, or the criminally corrupt political class... don't blame the 70 million fascists, or the 100 million people who completely ignore politics... or the Democrats who fail to motivate all of them and maintain unwavering support for a genocidal ethnostate... or the 60 million neolib centrists who insist on supporting the lesser of two evils, and reject "radical change" after the 5th "once-in-a-lifetime" crisis in a decade.
Blame the phantom protest voters, without evidence, instead... THIS IS ALL THEIR FAULT.
The "protest voters" are basically "the jews" or "immigrants" scapegoat for liberals. At least you get to enjoy the smell of your own farts while the fascist coup proceeds unabated.
Oh... it's all of the people you mentioned. That doesn't excuse anyone who didn't vote against this
News flash: Everyone you mention is getting blame.
We're not absolving the 77 million (to correct your numbers) Trump voters. In fact, this is explicitly called out whenever someone says "This is not what I voted for!" on Team Red. Especially when we say "Oh, no, this is exactly what you voted for, but you voted for it to happen to other people. Suck it up, buttercup!"
And the 100 million non-voters? They are EXACTLY who are being called out by someguy3. I mean, 'protest-non-voters' explicitly belong in the group of 100 million who don't vote.
And don't forget a lesson everyone old enough to vote should have learned a loong, loong time ago. We don't always get what we want. When the choices are "Greater Evil" and "Lesser Evil", which they are all too often, either you vote "Lesser Evil" or accept the consequences of "Greater Evil". 100 million people said they couldn't be bothered to choose, and 2 million thought they had a viable alternative beyond "Greater Evil" and "Lesser Evil" and threw their votes away for distraction candidates.
And here we are. Enjoy your Mango Mussolini. That's the guy you picked with all the ranting you did above, assuming you didn't swallow your pride and vote Harris in '24. In that case, other people making your argument picked Mango Mussolini for all of us.
Feeling a little defensive, are we?
It’s partly their fault. If the lazy non voters participated in democracy we might not be here but apathy has always been the order of the day for them their whole lives. It’s not just last election, it’s all of em.
Oh sweet summer child. The Russians did a decade of recon on the US election system before this play. Of all the elections to bitch about voters this is not the one. And people rang the alarms, DEFCON's voting village didn't exist until recently.
Arent you glad you voted for an old dementia-ridden fart who refused to defend the country from these people?
I wasn’t aware that “denaturalizing” was an actual thing. Is this something with legal precedent, or just something Stephen Miller has made up.
Basically, can you afford a court case against the U.S. Government to prove you never made a mistake on paperwork, or someone translating for you didn't make a mistake. Was anything missing from your report you gave 20 years ago when you didn't speak English and they said include the following?
The thing that blows me away is why... It's just money being blown from our taxes, to deport people who pay taxes... In a time period they claim we need higher birth numbers because capitalism demands growth and population growth makes that easier to support the social programs we have left
It's all about power over people, so they can enrich themselves. They want slaves.
They're doing it to punish people they perceive as enemies.
They want to deport brown people. To them that's worth the cost.
There is legal precedent, but since 1968 it's generally only been used on war criminals who lied to gain citizenship. They're going to start expanding what they consider to be "fraud" to include things like spelling mistakes and clerical errors, which is total bullshit. More details are in the article.
The article states
The government can only do this in specific situations. It must prove someone “illegally procured” citizenship by not meeting the requirements, or that they lied or hid important facts during the citizenship process.
So, basically, it all goes back to that person's naturalization process, and the notion that there was something wrong with it. But for this administration, "hiding important facts" might mean "didn't tell us this tiny detail", or "didn't tell us they intended to vote for Liberals"....
I wouldn't put it past them to doctor old documents even. If ICE agents are willing to call livestreaming a "violent act" then they can self-justify fudging a document to deport another "invader".
The part which seems under reported is that for a long time USCIS basically had an amnesty policy for expired visas while the next one was pending. I'd wager a very large percentage of people in the US who went from student/work visa to marriage residency technically overstayed their visa while the paperwork was being processed. There is no law which allows or otherwise protects this "paperwork amnesty," even though it has been long standing administrative policy. This administration could therefore go after anyone who was naturalized in this way. And for no reason other than they think this is red meat for their base who just really hates all immigrants for some reason.