“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.”
—Mark Twain
fuck either of them.
no loyalty to any state.
Patriotism isn't a good thing at all.
A long time ago I read some post that stuck with me.
It said that some people love their country the way a child loves their parent. They're perfect and smart and strong and can beat up your parent. They don't have any flaws, and can do no wrong. They're the best ever.
Other people love their country the way an adult loves a peer. They see the potential, the good, but also the flaws. They want what's best for both of them, even if it's uncomfortable and difficult. And ultimately, if the relationship becomes abusive, they won't just take it.
Conservatives often are the first one, but I think they are generally more immature. Fearful, tribal, angry.
Loving your country in the second way can be okay, I think. It can be a vehicle for improvement. People have wanted to improve their living spaces and communities for longer than we've had recorded history. It doesn't have to be toxic or zero-sum.
Every "nationalist" believes themselves a "patriot".
All this image does is allow you to self-soothe that you're "one of the good ones".
Both are tribalism of different levels of intensity. Our brains are predisposed for us-them mentality, some stronger than others, some can leave it behind others never will. It's also the most exploitable feeling in the history of our species, with fear may be the close contender.
Obviously a government embracing tribalism leads to horrid shit (everyone without an armband knows it) BUT ignoring it completely allows something else snake its way into that void. If you're lucky its something vegetarian like football hooliganism, if you-re not -- pan-nationalism, religious zealotry, whatever the 4chan incel shit is, people who can't or won't leave tribal mentality will find a dirt to roll in.
IMHO it is worth considering implementing a civic religion a-la french republicanism. Yes it can be a gateway to nationalism, but it also lets tribal minded people wave their flags and "guard the civic values" or whatever while the rest of us continue our lives in peace. As a bonus it improves civic participation and if you're attacked -- well there's already something for you to rally around.
Nobody should be patriotic with the genocidal settler colony that is the USA.
It's false and self serving to say all the good parts are patriotism and that's what I do but all the bad parts are nationalism and that's what they do.
All nation states are murderous vermin undeserving of respect. Holding any identity strongly - national, religious or ideological - can turn you into a destructive rube.
Americans act like the two are separate things so they can continue to be brainwashed into being good little America #1 oorah's.
Grow up, be proud of your own achievements, hard-work, and yourself not a fucking nation state like a little proto-fash.
Both are shit. It seems like american culture in general is just lesser-evilism.
I don't like how people continue to use pepe to signify the right, I have literally never seen someone use pepe as a right wing hate symbol or whatever the fuck and even if they do I don't give a shit, pepe did nothing wrong.
"(Pepe) he currently remains one of the most popular memes in the world"
Free Pepe! The most popular meme in the world is not a hate symbol unless you want it to be one, and I say it defintely isn't.
"In an interview with Esquire, Furie (creator of pepe) said of Pepe's usage as a hate symbol, "It sucks, but I can't control it more than anyone can control frogs on the Internet".[39] Fantagraphics Books, Furie's publisher, issued a statement condemning the "illegal and repulsive appropriations of the character".[40] The Anti-Defamation League, an American organization opposed to antisemitism, included Pepe in its hate symbol database but wrote that most instances of Pepe were not used in a hate-related context." - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog
Fuck both, honestly. I can take pride in who I am, learn history, improve my community and defend it, without tying all of those values to a nation state that can and will inevitably at some point use it's centralized, hierarchical, border-delineated power to oppress and dominate and be exactly the thing I don't want.
I'm sick of these lib takes clinging desperately to values they never bothered to fully examine because of some misplaced nostalgia, national mythology, material privilege, etc.
💗 🌸 🤗 Death to America 😎 ❤️ 💋
I feel like all those traits from patriotism are on a venn with something else like internationalism/antipatriotism, like they can indeed be found in patriotism but are not at the heart of what it is. Like, technically, german, italian or japanese patriots fought alongside nazis. You can say your country can do better regardless of whether you support its existence or not. It's not necessary to learn from history to be a patriot, etc.
Yikes. Is this from the "committee to save endangered ideologies"? Which think tank came up with this lol
It's the same picture
The only good fascist is a dead fascist
Patriotism is just a nice word people invented to be proud of their genocidal and colonialist country without feeling too bad about it.
Nationalism is only good when people are fighting colonialism, e.g. palestine or british era India.
Brazilian "patriots" bow to USA demands, so they're also dumb
Patriotism is pride in your country.
Nationalism is not knowing the difference between your government and your mommy.
um, no... Americocentric again
Nationalism has to do with pride in a shared cultural identity, whereas Patriotism is pride for one's country.
in other countries, there are strong cultural ties that bond people together. shared language. a relationship to the land. hundreds if not thousands of years of history. some countries have dozens of such groups.
nationalism is a person from that group taking pride in that identity. patriotism is taking pride in your country as a whole. so for example, you can be proud to be Gujarati, and you can be proud to be Indian.
now, in the United States, there really isn't a national identity beyond shopping malls and jingoism. so i can see how nationalism is rarely seen positively. all you get of it is nazis and fake irish frat bros.
but, no, really I think patriotism is a far bigger problem than nationalism. one's language is your flesh and blood, it's who you are. what the fuck does a country mean to you? the people who lock you up?
I will add that ethnicity, religious identification or lack thereof, or nationality doesn't exempt anyone. USA and Christianity aren't the first, only, or last to reinvent and suppress the parts of history we don't like, but we're certainly going full throttle, along with some other states and religions.
