Ask Lemmy @lemmy.world HootinNHollerin @lemmy.dbzer0.com 2d ago

What is palantir in lord of the rings / tolken, and what does that fortell about the dystopian company palantir?

I’ve heard it’s from LOTR but I’m not very into that but want to understand what that foreshadows for this dystopian data grabbing nightmare company

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Originally, The Great Elf Smith Feanor Created three gems (the Silmarils) that captured the light of the trees, Gold, Silver and combined gold and silver light, they were blessed and holy. They were Stolen by Melkor/Morgoth, w the help of Ungoliant, the Mother of Shelob. The Brothers of Feanor Spread out, and they Vowed to get the Silmarils Back, The Palantir were then created by Feanor so the brothers could coordinate w each other over distance. In LOTR, We see that Sauruman has one, and Sauron (Servant of Morgoth) Has one. - His power and influence worked through it, he could see the minds and the intentions of those who looked into it. Originally they were just for the Brothers to communicate. The Silmarillion is my favorite book, really worth reading, IMHO better than all the LOTR + Hobbit, Its the total Backstoiry/Prequel to LOTR and Tolkien Died before it was truly finished, His son Published it, and it's brilliant.
Simplified: It's a crystal ball that allows you to see through space. However, the target can also see you.

Think of it like one of those ~~crying~~ scrying (ducking autocorrect) balls from the Disney movies. Or a two-way-camera setup.

Can't wait for some terminally online dork with a python script to figure out that the god password for Palantir is "StudMuffin1234" and dump everything online, thus making the two-way aspect a reality...

EDIT: Just for the record, it's been over 30 years since I read the books. I may remember it incorrectly.
- The concept is used by Palantir the corporation to refer to the fact that they are placing the world under malevolent surveillance. And they're clearly proud of that malevolence. Yucky.
- The palantirs were mainly used by the evil side during the time the books are set in. Specifically, Sauron (main bad guy) uses it to draw Saruman (former good guy turned bad) to his side.
  
  Only the LoTR books. In the earlier time periods they're very much a tool of the "good guys" to communicate.
- Only thing missing is the two way allows for the corrupting and controlling influence. Sauruman basically became the way he did by using them to much and he is from a class of beings that are about as resistant to the effects as can be.
- crying balls
  
  Hopefully you mean scrying, a crystal ball that cries sounds dreadful.
Thiel doesn't see himself like Sauron, but like the Great and Good Kings of old, of the Númenor Empire...Numenorians lived hundreds of years and were good and noble, and most important, white.

They had the Palantirs, orbs that could connect the distant realms of the Empire...imagine colonial England with palantirs and Lords that lived hundreds of years.

Númeror was sunk by God (big G) because of the hubris of this Aryans that thought they could set sail to the land of the gods (small g's)

With time, most of the Palantirs were lost. Most people didn't even knew they existed. (Most people don't know about Thiel and palantir either.)

Both Gondor and Isengard (city/fortress) had one.

And has other lemming has said, the palantirs work both ways.

So both Saruman (Isengard) and Denethor (Gondor) thought they could use the "power" of the palantirs to subjugate and rule.

But Sauron had one. And more power and knowledge about them.
So he used the 2 way channel of the palantirs to corrupt them whenever one of them connected with the orb. (Like Russia used the social media apps to corrupt discontent people into turning more and more to the right.)

So.

Like I said at the beginning.
Thiel doesn't see himself has Sauron. I think.

He seems himself has one of the great kings of the ancient white Empire that lost the pride and diluted the blood, all because of foreigners... (Aragon has numenorian blood...but diluted...so in the films your are seeing a 80 year old man. But he will not reach the hundreds of years that his ancestors lived.)

Thiel wants to live forever, believes in eugenics and dynasties, and has a company called Palantir to spy on the whole world...

He must see himself has Aragon reforging Narsil and remaking the old white Empire.

Edit: I know Aragon is good. I'm saying Thiel thinks he is good too. The irony is that he is the last days of Númenor, and not really the glory of the good old days.
- No matter who he sees himself as, his actions are those of Saruman.
  
  Sure. Sauron was the one who corrupted the kings and people of Númenor and led to the downfall of the Empire. So I tend to agree with you.
  
  Replace sauron with thiel and Empire with the States (world?), and yeah, spot on.
  
  But sauron didn't create the palantirs.
  
  And my point was that HE SEES HIMSELF as one of the good, wise, near imortal kings of Numenor before the corruption of Sauron.
  
  This is reality. There isn't a sauron to blame. And I don't like that Tolkien thinks that white people are flawless without a devil like thing to corrupt them.
  
  But he was Christian...and a thing i learned about religion is that all glory is to God and all fault is to the devil(s)...people are inherently pure and Good. /s
  
  Happy account day 🫡
In addition to the other comments, when Gandalf, known for being among the wisest at the time, sees the lost seeing stone, he is immediately suspicious and wary.
Basically it's really great to have this card out for yourself, and pretty horrible if it's on your opponent's side.
I mean, the artifact in LotR is magical. Reading too much into the name would be a mistake.
It's Skype Middle Earth Edition™.

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