they don't want to, cause they are just controlled opposition
I don't know what "going low" means, but if we discard our morals and dehumanize our opponents to get into power, that's still a fascist regime in power.
I do agree that we need candidates that will wield political power to favor the working class and reduce marginalization. Depending on where you are check out Working Families Party or Sunrise Movement.
I disagree with Ironsides overall callout, but there is room for us to get a little more rowdy.
The democrats are trying hard to appeal to the republican base and give them things they want, to the detriment of their own base. They're trying to play both sides. We need to be shouting, calling out all this stupid shit and if media won't give us attention, they need to take to platforms that will help spread the word. We need clear communication and a concise, reasonably progressive agenda broadcast to the people, we need to call out Faux news on their bullshit and try to shoot straight to the people.
There are plenty of working-class people that still vote Republican, for a variety or reasons, and I think it is good to try to appeal to them. I don't think Ds should appeal to them by attacking immigrants or trans people or any other marginalized group, but they do need to appeal to them. Working Families Party seems to be carrying some water there.
I do agree that a loud and proud commitment to the truth (and matching rejection of MAGA fables) is a component. But, I think broad, sweeping denigration doesn't help -- individually, in-person, explaining to someone why their stated believe are wrong and objectionable can work (and in fact, seems to work better that just shunning/ostracization). But, calling everyone that voted for any R your low-intelligence or low-morality slur of choice (e.g.: "idiot" or "deplorable") over mass / social media just strengthens the group identity.
Of course, I talk a big game, but I'm not doing anything real. I don't know what I'd do where I'm at; it feels like a lost cause, and I can't stray too far from the house due to familial duties.
so in short we're doomed.
it's been clear for a long time the democrats won't save us, don't hang a single hope on "if the democratic party..."
It’s worse than that. They’re all insider trading stocks on all sorts of industries that they directly regulate and have every incentive to weaken, corrode, rip-off, and kill you including weapons manufacturers and defense contractors. Both parties are literally financing and directly benefiting from our rapid decline in the best case and complete obliteration in the worst.
This is literally what the GOP has been working towards for 40 years and dems are all like "Whelp! Yep they're corrupt and trampling the constitution but what can we do? Please send money"
The Dems have no survival instincts at all
The Democrats are the lesser of the two evils. They are more subtle about not really helping the lower-class and fixing the insane amount of poverty in the USA.
That subtle stuff has been bothering me. Like, I don't agree with any policies from the Republicans but at least they just tell me to go fuck myself and dont pretend that they really do care
“gRoW a sPiNe”
Nothing sounds weaker than tiptoeing around the phrase”grow some balls.”
spine has always meant courage and integrity though, and it's a less coarse way to say basically the same thing. it's not like they made up a new phrase.
All things being equal, "grow some balls" is a gendered statement. It implies you need "balls" to be strong or able to form coherent arguments or defend yourself.
I can see why someone would intentionally use an alternate phrase.
It's because they don't want to stop insider trading and taking these bribes they are even taking these political assassinations seriously
... we are doomed.
You don't need the "if"
It's hard to stand for any principles when you're bought and paid for by the very people who are currently riding their insanity bus with trump.
People assume the Democratic party don't know what they are doing. They know precisely what they are doing by feigning they don't know what they are doing.
The oligarchs really have both parties, and the country in its entirety as a result, by the balls. That is why it is crucial to realise to also protest against oligarchy alongside "No Kings" protest. Trump is only the front and fall guy, it is the oligarchs who are truly in power.
The oligarchs really have both parties,
I made this meme a while ago:
I am increasingly worried that the Democrat/Republican divide, or the US democracy in general, is mostly a "divide and conquer" scheme. It makes people believe they can choose their country's path, but actually, both parties agree on essential questions of economics, such as that there are practically no taxes on the rich, that there's weak social safety nets, and such.
The differences between the parties are only in the culture, or as i say, in the sexuality, which should be a private issue overall, and it makes for an excellent distraction from economic issues.
The only thing that politics actually should care about is the socio-economic situation, i.e. how much resources do people have to live.
"Just one more peaceful protest bro. I swear bro"
Insert that one guy who insists on a 3.5% of the population peaceful protest
Dems watch too much movies where the good guys keep letting the bad guy live.
Why do you think the rich love making movies with that trope so much. Or the ones where revolutionaries always end up just as bad as the oppressor they overthrew.
revolutionaries always end up just as bad as the oppressor they overthrew
To be fair, this happens a lot. Not "always" but too often enough.
Even the American Revolution. So yay, overthrew "British Tyranny". So you're gonna free the slaves, right? Right? "Freedom" remember? (Well y'all know the rest of the history)
Edit: Cherry on top, the UK now has a better healthcare system than the US 🤣
Yeah. The MCU is probably the biggest offender. Luckily hardly anyone watches that garbage. There is this thing where people call the movies 'woke' but they are not. At least not beyond a surface level anyway (makes it easier to cut out all the gay stuff for violent dictatorships. Plus, most of the heroes belong to a wealthy/noble class while the others are either cops or soldiers.
Low isn't required, but not being a giant pussy is, and, by extension, knowing the difference.
Don’t have to go low to tell the fucking truth and call it as it is. They just need to stop pandering and open their fucking mouths.
Dems don't need to go low. They need to stop chasing conservative voters.
The reason they are so timid on everything is because the consultant class has convinced them that if they are just a bit more right wing, they'll win the next election.
If Dems fired the consultants and chased the working class, they'd win big time. People hate the Dems because they are corporate captured.
Dems don’t need to go low.
Yeah, they just need to stop taking the high road. The regular road where people are called out held accountable for being terrible is fine, no need to go low.
They wouldn’t if we voted for progressives in the primaries. The 15% that shows up for congressional primaries are almost exclusively retirees. They always pick the most conservative Democrat. We should be voting twice every two years, not once every four, for national elections alone.
They wouldn’t if we voted for progressives in the primaries.
...subject to availability.
I agree. Everyone should be involved and informed on how to maximize the power of their vote wherever they live. Ideally, you get plugged in with someone like the DSA and vote their endorsements.
Sadly too many people fall for spoiler candidates which is part of the reason it's so hard to unseat an incumbent.
It’s either that or many dems are ok with sitting back and acting helpless while they take their lobbying bribes and invest in the markets they regulate. Why change a system that personally benefits them so much?
stop chasing conservative voters. chased the working class,
Most of the working class is conservative. So...?
Which working class are you talking about? Because the working class I know are weed smoking, porn watching, beer drinking dudes who don't want any of this Christofascist bullshit. It boils down to taxes and guns. Dems need to let these people have their guns and lower taxes for the bottom 50% of the country.
One party acts like it cares about people and the other party doesn't care about even trying, but they both work for the same people.
“We need the conservatives to keep the conservatives in check!”
This country needs political literacy and situational understanding, there aren’t two parties.
Right, and they just assassinated one of their own. 🙄
What they meant is that, for the working class, both parties are effectively the same. They both represent the rich, albeit different subsections with slightly differing interests. Sometimes the rich assassinate the rich because some of the rich got in the way of other rich people. They have as much infighting as the left sometimes tbh. Regardless of that though they are both capitalist parties who primarily secure the interests of capitalists. They are the same in that neither of them give a shit about you other than what you can do for them. Which is to say, the illusion of political legitimacy and the wealth you create for them.
Why would they grow a spine? The people funding them are the same as those funding the people who are fine with this happening.
"Listen, we're doing fine. We have two clear paths to victory and they involve completely ignoring progressives. I mean yeah, sure, we could win big time with them but that's not happening, we're not letting that happen, stop asking for ice cream we're going to eat rocks and you're going to like it. Our two paths to victory are 1: becoming more conservative to get conservative voters or 2: a giant meteor breaks up in the atmosphere and large chunks hit major Republican strongholds. Those are the two realistic paths we're following. WE'RE GOING TO IGNORE PROGRESSIVES, STOP ASKING!"
Especially with this guy getting a couple of 2nd degree charges. And Luigi being labeled a terrorist. Shits fucked yo.
Wait what, seriously? Killing a CEO is terrorism, but two politicians is just "normal" murder? That's absolutely fucked.
Luigi is a terrorist.
Allegedly a terrorist. The trial isn't over yet.
And the complaint has two parts - first, that Luigi is being labelled a terrorist, and SECOND, that the political murderer was NOT charged with terrorism when the murders very clearly were politically motivated.
its actually a UNIPARTY, a coalition party of both sides. because majority of the time they do vote together on some issues but not others.
The capitalist party if you would
As much as i am applied by the behavior and ideas of the Republican GOP.. I am disappointed by the lack of any real effort to stop them from the Democrats
they seem to be afraid of offending them
The Democrats are many many years overdue for a spine. But I still (perhaps naievely) want to believe that it's possible to win without going low.
Maybe I'm just crazy and need my tinfoil hat adjusted, but a race to the bottom still fucks us all over.
Holding people accountable for their actions isn't "going low". Holding people accountable for the knock on effects of their actions isn't "going low". Holding people accountable for their own previous statements isn't "going low". Callong out blatant lies and misdirection isn't "going low". Actually enforcing laws equally against people privileged financially and/or politically isn't "going low". Calling out blatant corruption isn't "going low".
We don't need the Democrats to start pushing candidates that are only following their own interests while wheeling out whatever their base wants to hear. We don't need Democrats cutting backroom deals with businesses that screw over their constituents. We don't need more toxic waste and diarrehia, just with blue food coloring.
I refuse to believe people actually want "Trump but saying leftist shit to appease people".
it’s possible to win without going low
Oh my god wake the FUCK up.
There's a massive space between the ineffective high road and the counterproductive low road that can be used to win. Calling out bullshit, reliably following through on a platform for the masses, holding people accountable all fall in between the two extremes.
Flipping to the opposite extreme isn't the solution.
What do you consider "going low"?
If you mean the type of schoolyard insults Trump lobs out, I dislike that but that's just optics. Mud-slinging is whatever.
When we're talking going low in regards to truly matching the lowest of what Trump's base is doing, they're literally abducting citizens. Making deals with clear persistent enemies of the state as if they're allies. Two politicians were just fucking assassinated.
I'm not personally prepared to accept full open warfare yet. Gun violence in the streets. Too much collateral.
If that's truly necessary already, then we're so far beyond discussions of what the Democrats should or shouldn't do that this entire thread (including the OP picture) is just wasting time.
If things are that bad, people would need to get off their asses and start throwing literal blood and lives to the cause of overthrowing Trump. I'm still not convinced we're there yet. If you disagree, either lead by example and get out there with your rifle, or say more to convince those of us not up to speed instead of attacking potential allies.
Start organizing a militia and get the fuck out of threads like this one that would give the intelligence agencies reasons to watch you and kill momentum before it starts, or work outreach and do more to convince people into the cause. To do anything else is irresponsible and self defeating.
The democrats don’t mind offending people. Like minorities like Trans or Disabled people. They only walk on eggshells around conservatives for some reason.
Yeah no if the Democrats start peddling the same kind of bullshit that the Republicans do, I'm not voting for them either. That also goes for candidates who are just miserable fucking assholes. I don't want them to win over Republican voters, I want them to inspire the people who are sick of the lack of any real progressive views.
it's too late for any of this. fascists will continue to do whatever tf they want and face zero consequences, while everyone else continues to peacefully protest and accomplish nothing.
if anything actually changes in the next year, i'll be the first to come back and say i was wrong.
but we've been on this path for going on 10 years. nothing's going to change
I think maybe the only hope is that Trump dies, nobody has the charisma to replace him, and the right devours itself.
They'll figure something out. The right will rally around even losers like PP up in Canada if need be.
Shame used to work; it doesn't anymore. (Soap box.)
Voting used to work; it doesn't anymore. (Ballot box.)
The courts used to work; they don't anymore. (Jury box.)
You know what's next.
We just had one of the largest protests (if not the largest) in the history of US protests. The people are making themselves known and the media covered it this time. Let's celebrate that.
Why We're Organizing No Kings Protests on Saturday--A king is only a king if we bow down
For the would-be dictator, success depends on projecting power and creating an aura of inevitability. They need you to believe that Trump is the new normal, that the MAGA movement will be in power for the long haul, that the only rational move is to go along, keep your head down, and protect your own interests.
In short, it requires a countless number of people in a countless number of places to do something that the Trump regime doesn’t want them to do, or to NOT do something the Trump regime wants them to do. That’s how we shake off the aura of inevitability and halt the autocratic breakthrough.
For that to happen, people need to feel like we’re part of something bigger. We need to understand that we’re part of a movement. We need to feel like we will win.
https://www.howwefightback.com/p/why-were-organizing-no-kings-protests
The fascists are shaking in their boots with how known you are rn. Peaceful protests only work in conjunction with direct action and "no kings" failed to do that. What it did was make people feel like they did something so they can go home and do nothing again.
There are no two major parties in the US .... it's all the same party
Why the fuck is one party treated differently then the other party?
If they are the fucking same they would advocate for same shit and vote alone the same lines... that doesn't fucking happen.
But if we Make REPUBLICANS feel bad they MIGHT Lie to Their Supporters and TRY to KILL us! Again! For the Sixth time! This Decade!
Watch CSPAN and read Congress.gov before criticizing the only people in our government trying to put a stop to this.
Democrats forced three 15-day votes against Trump’s executive orders, confirmed Biden’s pending judicial appointments when Republican attendance was low, publicly call out Trump’s overstepping of his powers and failure to uphold the Constitution, filed articles of impeachment against Trump, voted against deportations and tariffs, and are the ones bringing these cases to the courts. They DOA’d the only supermajority bills that the Republicans have introduced, including the SAVE Act, which would have disenfranchised married women and trans people from voting. They held four 24+ hour hearings, debating each provision of the reconciliation bill, line-by-line, just to get Republicans on record defending each position. They have repeatedly called for Hegseth and Gabbard to step down, to their faces in congressional hearings, for reasons of incompetence and conflict of interest, respectively.
They also sat on their asses for 4 years as fascism festered. They never fired Merrick Garland. They never stacked courts. They censured Al Greene. They didnt question Biden's campaign until just before midnight. They ignored Biden's terrible polling. They confirmed Trump's cabinet picks with minimal opposition. Dem leadership folded and passed Trump's budget.
Every single democratic senator voted to confirm Marco Rubio - who then answered by doing fascism in short order
The democrats are controlled opposition, and it's time to abandon them. No amount of "calling out hypocrisy" is going to stop fascism.
I’m not saying they’ve gotten everything right. I’m refuting the accusations that they are spineless do-nothings. If the world appears binary to you, you need to get out more.
“Growing a spine” is contradictory to “going low”.
You are allowed to go low against those who do that against you, there's no honourable fight if the rules are not agreed by both parties.
Yeah, that’s fair. I guess the hypothetical I had in my mind was if I’m at war and the enemy is torturing their POWs, I’m not going to start torturing mine because that would go against my morals. I was interpreting “going low” as abandoning my own values.
Everyone needs to do their part. That includes you and me. Dont wait for others to step up, show responsibility by leading by example.
The moral high road is filled with corpses.
Also I urge people to vote
