Here in America, you can have whatever car you like! Yup. As long as it's the same silver, white, or black truck or SUV, you're spoiled for choice!
Here in America, you can have whatever car you like! Yup. As long as it's the same silver, white, or black truck or SUV, you're spoiled for choice!
Vans and minivans do everything trucks and SUVs do, and they do it better. Every time. No exception. SUVs and crossovers are just worse minivans for people who think they're too cool to drive a minivan.
And those outside of North America largely need not apply. I wish we could just have a robust public transit system here, but apparently, public transit is antithetical to muh freedum or something. Or so they tell me.
And that's not even getting into the point the post makes, which is that these monstrosities are getting bigger and more dangerous to pedestrians, yet our governments do nothing to stop it.
The argument is not that some people need trucks.
It is that huge trucks and suvs shouldnât be the way they are nowadays. They can tow just as much if the hood is redesigned so it has better visibility than an M1 tank, because itâs currently worse. Theyâre stupid and oversized in the wrong ways.
If you need a real truck, you probably should get a flat front Isuzu FTR or something more functional than a sidewalk princess designed to kill pedestrians.
They changed the rules in my country. You can buy a truck but I'll be taxed like a personal car instead of light cargo, unless you have a business and it's a company car. That seriously curbed the eagerness to buy one.
100% the last bit. Unless youâre regularly hauling a fifth-wheel camper or have swapped the bed for a towing rig thereâs pretty much no reason to own one and itâll be worse at everything. For personal use there are sooooo many vans that do a better job and for work that goes double!
Trucks are just straight terrible.
Honestly I don't mind trucks or SUVs specifically but vehicles are getting way too big on average, I mean the F150 is North America's best selling vehicle (*edit: I have since learned as of 2024 that spot actually belongs to the RAV4) since forever. It's a problem of misaligned incentives.
There's an exception carved out for large vehicles in the EPA guidelines that hold them to less stringent emissions standards which incentivizes building larger vehicles 1
Large cars are also incentivized by our crash safety rating system which only takes into account the mortality rate of those inside the car as apposed to average related fatalities. This means it will prioritize safety of those in the vehicle, which has led to our average fatalities increasing. 2
As an unintended side effect this also damages roads much faster because vehicle weight per axle determines the magnitude of the damage a vehicle does to the road. 3 anecdotally this makes me concerned for the additional weight that electric cars add.
Also as vehicles increase in weight the amount of microplastics put into the air as a by product of tire wear increase. 4
As cars increase in size (and therefore weight) the downsides are exponential.
Vans and minivans do everything trucks and SUVs do, and they do it better.
Except tow things.
I'll show you how many people I see driving absolutely massive trucks (with 6" spacers on the wheels that are abysmal for the drivetrain and look absolutely hideous) that are towing more than 1 single fat ass american:
And good luck carrying something long or tall.
Lots of people need a truck often enough that it makes more sense to own one than to buy 2 cars, even if most of the time it's just a passenger car.
My parents have a plug-in hybrid and an F150 as their 2 cars because most of the time, the hybrid is great but frequently they need to move plywood or rent a trencher.
I drive an NV200 (mini cargo van) because I frequently need to haul scuba gear and tools, but rarely anything that won't fit in the cargo area of the van.
It's almost like different vehicles we've different roles.
You can rent a fucking truck if you need something long or tall. The only people who need trucks are people who are doing that kinda stuff on the regular. I just got to the hospital and this huge truck pulls up to the handicapped area and two elderly people got out, very carefully since they needed to climb down. They do NOT need a truck.
edit: Sorry, I thought this was /c/fuckcars
My in-laws have a van that can out-pull my pickup. Partly due to my trucks age and how heavily it has been used over the years, but their van isn't exactly a pushover.
And they have their own pickup that is only a few years old and it can't tow their camper very well. They use their van whenever they can.
Make it way harder to haul stuff. Gotta hand load instead of letting the loader load your load.
Vans and minivans do everything trucks and SUVs do,
And move big things. I have a minivan. But I destroyed my suspension using it to rent yard equipment. I couldn't rent many because they wouldn't fit. There's also the whole moving a muddy bush hog into my carpeted minivan that is a huge hassle.
Canât get a load of rock dumped in a minivan, canât use a forklift to put a pallet in it, no using lifts either. Plenty of stuff vans canât do.
I think you're right, and the original post is wrong to say that vans do it better every time, no exception.
However, I think that a van would be a more practical and better vehicle for a vast majority of people who are driving trucks. It's just that people don't care if things are practical, they want things that they think are cool.
Probably not in a minivan, but I've personally loaded pallets into cargo vans with a forklift
I can't find any vehicle big enough to move my muddy bush hog đ
I'm an American in the rural South East. I can count on one hand the amount of people I've seen, met, or are my in laws who NEED a truck. I do not have enough body parts to count the amount of trucks that are used by compensating good ol' boys and girls. The amount of shitty drivers in SUVs who have the mindset of "if I'm in an accident I'll be ok, so I don't have to worry about driving like there are other people on the road" is down right astounding.
Most days I don't need a truck. Most days I don't want a truck.
But that's what I've got and I can't exactly just buy a new vehicle, or simply change jobs to one I can cycle to.
I'm a minority though, for most people it's compensation for insecurity or attempted status symbol. Around here we call them "pavement princesses" because they never touch dirt and likely couldn't navigate a back yard with its current driver.
And I'm not trying to imply that there is no reason to need a truck or no reason to need an SUV. There are jobs that require it, there are things that you can do or be employed by that would require needing extra towing capacity, that would require needing extra abilities to hold heavier weights. Those things do exist. But again I can count on one hand the amount of people I know or have met or am related to now who NEED those things. I've actually had to watch as several of my in-laws who worked for companies that they claimed they couldn't do their job unless they had a lifted jacked up truck which had an extreme extended cab and bed be transferred to electric vans and it did not impact their job. They were still able to get everywhere they needed to go with all of the things that they had in tow and the mover vans worked just fine. And I've actually known several people who got fired from those jobs because the electric vans had tattler programs and it told them that they were driving in dangerous manners putting both the company's assets at risk and risking liability.
Not even close to true. We have a small car (integra) and a giant truck (F250). We use the F250 to tow boats and a camper. Most people look at the tow limit and donât realize the limiting factor is the payload. We had to trade in our F150 for the F250 because the F150 only had 1500 lbs payload. The camper (6000lbs dry, 7500 lbs max) had a dry tongue weight of 850 lbs and a loaded payload closer to 1000 lbs. Leaving about 500 lbs for people, dogs, and cargo. Doesnât work. F250 has 3300 lbs payload. Find me a van with 3300 payload and no, donât look in the manual. Those are all the theoretical max payload. Look at the door sticker. F150 manual says something like 2200 lbs, but door sticker says 1500 lbs. And yes, the F250 is no fun to drive in a city or take shopping. Thats what the Integra is for.
F150 manual says something like 2200 lbs,
Thatâs for the f-150 each trim and modification lowers it. Want the v8 instead of v6, less payload. Entertainment and speakers, less payload. Captains chairs, less payload.
The manual tells you all of this as well.
Sure, but that doesnât give you an actual payload number. The only ways Iâve seen to get an actual number is the door sticker or the manufacturer tow calculator. You can get the VIN off of a dealer page and enter it like https://www.ford.com/support/towing-calculator with VIN 1FTFW5LD5SFB04598 and check out the 1340 lbs payload on that F150.
And also, can't do a thing about blinding headlights in giant suvs nope not a thing.
Weâre pop up headlights a danger? I always wondered why they went away as a style choice
Dangerous, overcomplicated, prone to failure and expensive. The auto industry didn't fight to save them because customers didn't really seem to care that much about them.
That makes a ton of sense, huh, today I learned
While I don't entirely agree with the sentiment of your post. I will sure add my two cents:
I travel for work and have learned the Chrysler Pacifica minivan rental cars are unbeatable machines for loading equipment and driving long distances. The seats fold right down into the floor and I can load it to the ceiling with my Pelican cases. The larger crossover SUVs are just sedans that somebody attached a bike pump to and inflated the metal between the inside and outside of the vehicle. There ain't shit for space anymore. Also the Pacifica is comfy af.
Also also, you don't have to lift your heavy shit 4 feet off the ground... Big bonus.
Yeah! Minivans are the best for hauling people or stuff.
The distances are a problem in the US for good public transport.
So are: Lawyers, NIMBYs, classism, racism, anti-tax, automotive lobbyists, peer pressure, and even environmentalists.
Iâm curious how many folks in the US basically go broke from truck payments and interest rates. I do pretty well working in tech and I still gasp whenever I look at truck prices here. Theyâre a massive fucking ripoffâeven small trucks like the Ranger and Tacoma. I probably walk past folks on the daily that are paying 4-digits every month for a stupid status symbol, while they get paid like shit.
I just got back from Europe and I'm so fucking sick of how stupid North America is when it comes to transports. I just want to break all those stupidly big trucks and cars that all over my city. Seriously fuck you, driving a fucking tank in the middle of 1.5 millions city shouldn't be a right, just because some idiots want to do it.
Are crossovers that bad? They seem mostly to be sedans with better storage and a little worse gas mileage. The latter of which minivans definitely dont win on.
That just sounds like a worse station wagon. Which, being the owner of a Subaru Outback station wagon, I can confirm.
Worse station wagon is exactly what a crossover is
Wouldn't a station wagon have even worse gas mileage?
What about moving a mattress? Can't fit that in a minivan, and that comes up all the damn time.
There are valid complaints in here, but most of it is nonsense. Trucks and SUVs are the only choice? What do you even mean by that? It's way easier to get a regular car.
I live in Texas. I only know one person with a truck, and it's used constantly. There's something in the flatbed that wouldn't fit in a van at least once or twice a month, I'd say.
You can fit at least a twin, probably a full size inside most minivans (I did have to take one out of a grand caravan recently), and a queen or king would go on the roof fine if you spec one with crossbars. Most minivans also have reasonable towing capacity, so renting a U-Haul utility or cargo trailer is less than the difference in one monthly payment between a van and a bigger truck or SUV. I've put thousands of miles on my 2nd gen highlander hybrid just towing either my utility trailer (5x8) or a U-Haul cargo (4x6, 5x8, and 6x12), moved twice, helped friends and family move, done dump runs etc... I've only rented a moving truck once, for my first move, and that was only due to limited time for a full apartment move.
I've moved many a mattress in my parent's minivan. With the seats folded down or removed and a bit of an angle and/or squishing in a bit you can usually fit a queen, maybe even a king depending on the mattress and van. Box springs are harder, but often still doable, and in a pinch can be easily strapped to a roof rack.
They also have a '93 ranger with the 7ft bed, still chose to use the van for mattresses as often as not, to need to strap anything down or cover them if there's rain in the forecast.
I did a road trip with my wife a few years back and borrowed their Sedona, took out the back seats, threw a "queen" sized air mattress (I'm pretty sure it was a little undersized from a real mattress, but still pretty close) and the mattress was a little squished on the sides but otherwise fit pretty comfortably in the back, we slept in the van for about a week moving between different campsites.
Know what mattresses don't fit comfortably in? The 5.5ft beds a lot of pickup trucks have these days.