First, name 5 men who trust you.
This sounds like a US thing.
People just don't go to other people saying some random shit where I'm from. Unless they're crazy, beggars, or tourists from the US. If you come to anorher person and don't start your sentence with "excuse me" or "sorry", you're getting ignored.
Beethoven shirt. "Name five songs", "sure, allegro, allegro vivace, scherzo, adagio, andante cantabile."
People who wear band shirts, does this actually happen?
Nope. Every once in a long while someone will say "Nice shirt!".
… no. Although 2ce when I wore death metal band t shirt while walking my dog a car started blasting one of their songs. At least I thought it was one of their songs…. I went to the show that time and saw them live and they were great so I wanted to support them by buying merch. I have a ton of shirts like that.
Just checking, if woman asked the exact same question would that be ok? Gatekeeping happens on both sides, not sure how this a male only issue.
I mean, if I'm wearing a band's shirt I'll probably know five of their songs so sure.
On the other side of the spectrum I've owned and worn band clothes without even knowing they were band clothes. They were second hand and I liked the logos.
You mean if a woman insinuated you weren't a real fan by asking you to prove you know more than 5 tracks? Sure, man. That'd be real bad.
Hey, does anyone remember when Morgan Webb was being harassed online for being a fake gamer girl while Adam Sessler wasn't?
Not really, but the issue is about how toxic misogynistic males frequently do this, not the fact that the string of events that have occurred
It’s just way way way way worse for women that’s all.
Yes! Who can even name five people they trust!?
My job includes doing a lot of events on college campuses, so I see a lot of t-shirts for classic rock bands. I see a Dark Side of the Moon shirt at nearly every event. I'm a huge lifelong musician and music lover, so I often ask if they've listened to that album. If they have, we have a nice discussion about Pink Floyd. If not, I encourage them to give it a listen, because it is an album that has literally changed people's lives.
One girl told me she hadn't heard it, but her GRANDMOTHER told her it was the greatest album ever made. First of all: Grandmother? That hurt. Secondly, I told her grandma may be right, go listen to that album.
Recently, someone was wearing an Abby Road shirt, so I asked. They turned out to be a huge Beatles fan, and we had a nice conversation about it.
OTOH, one girl had on a Kiss shirt, so I asked her, and she didn't even know that Kiss was a band. She just liked the shirt.
Not everyone asking is looking to start an argument. Often we are just older music fans who are thrilled to see young people embracing the great rock music of the classic era, and want to talk to them about it. Engage those older music lovers, they may be able to tell you about other albums or artists you might like, or tell cool stories about shows they've been to. In my case, I worked for many years on the record biz, and have lots of stories of personal meetings and backstage experiences with truly legendary musicians. Young music lovers enjoy my stories, but if you responded with "name 5 women who trust you," I'd just write you off as a defensive, confrontational jerk, and ignore you. No fun stories for you.
This is how to be a decent person. I’m glad there are people like you in the world.
And yes the grandmother comment would have definitely hurt… oof.
I think the German saying „Der Ton macht die Musik.“ fits very well here. There is a massive difference between you bringing it up as an conversation starter and an incel jerk using it as a challenge.
This is lovely and wholesome, but you're not the type of person the post is about.
Edit: sorry I just realised my comment was kinda glib, so let me elaborate. You didn't specify but I assumed you approached those women with a friendly air, having a genuine desire to have a conversation with them as equals, and said something like "oh I love that album, have you listened to it?" Putting yourself in their shoes, compare that to a guy who approaches them aggressively, having a deep seated resentment for all women, and lashes out with "pretending you like that band huh? Prove it then, name 5 of their songs!"
Thank you for a common sense response to my post. The problem is that ALL standard-issue white boomer men like me have become the enemy, and we all take the blame for assholes who would behave poorly no matter what their sex, age, race, etc.
I have become somewhat activist about sweeping generalizations about people. It isn't right when MAGA Nazis disparage undocumented immigrants as a whole, and it isn't right when young people or women, etc. disparage older white men as a whole. Most of us are decent reasonable people, it's just that the jerks are far louder, so they get the attention.
Suddenly realizing how many women I knew have come out as non-binary "Uhhh, uhhh... Well my wife? Wait, no, um, my friend? No, they're not- uh,"
They are the one wearing a band T-shirt, advertising that they are fan. They opened themselves up to a conversation about it, and bringing up the person's relationship experience is 100% irrelevant.
Asking someone to name 5 women who trust them, and then challenging those choices as wrong, when the subject and the people they are naming are totally unknown, isn't winning the argument.
This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.
This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.
You don't have to be "fair" when some rando starts debating you out of nowhere, same way you don't have to do a proper duel when someone asks
I feel like when it comes to cultural things like bands the wearer should be at least aware and supporting of the band. Imagine if I wore a MAGA cap, because I thought it looked cool but didn’t know anything about it.
Totally agree. I recently saw a guy with a shirt that said "Don't wear T-shirts of bands you don't listen to."
They opened themselves up to a conversation about it,
If the question to "name 5 songs" is an attempt at opening up a conversation, it's a questionable strategy. You're not making conversation, you're assigning someone a test. Forcing a set list provides plenty of opportunity for the answers to be scrutinized and possibly used as justification to doubt the woman's authenticity. It's a commonly used gate-keeping tactic that most, if not all women and AFAB have/had used against them at some point.
A friendly acknowledgement of a shared interest would work far better, like going, "Oh, I love that band! Did you go to their last concert?" Even, "What's your favorite song?" works, because the problem isn't asking a question, but the immediate assignment of work along with guaranteed judgement regardless of the answer.
Most people probably don't enjoy being subjected to pop quizzes, and this kind of question feels like being given a pop quiz with the sole reward for winning being "to be accepted by you." Even if one's intent is truly innocent, when someone's idea of "conversation" is "subject the other person to random tests," other people might avoid interacting with that person.
Valid, which is why one of my responses said that how you ask is a big part of the issue. My question is just "Have you ever listened to that album?," and I always try to ask it in a friendly manner, not confrontational. at least 75% of the time, the answer is "No."
A conversation and challenging someone are two different things. They didn't open up a conversation, they challenged the person with the T-shirts interest. They deserve to be challenged back, especially in a way that calls attention to the fact that they are abbrasive, intolerable, or worse.
Funny how I never have an issue of women being “unfair” to me yet you constantly do. I wonder what the difference between us is?
Reading comprehension is required.
I didn't say I have an issue with women being unfair to me. I said they often get accused of debating unfairly, and they do. Listen to a few stand-up comedians, and you'll hear plenty of jokes about how difficult it is to argue with women. Chris Rock has a famous monologue about women being impossible to argue with because they don't feel that their arguments have to make sense.
Don't blame me personally for a widely held societal belief.
So she asked for it?
Nice notion, but won't work.
Those people will happily list every women they know, however distant.
Many men don't even have a concept for this kind of "trust".Who gives you the right to challenge if someone is truly "trusted" or not? You don't know the person or the people they are citing, so you are just convicting men without any evidence at all.
Ohh! How nice! I was wondering why if I would ever have to block someone on here!
Not OP, but men tell us themselves. They tell us when we're in a relationship and they say that no one else ever understood them like we do. They tell us when we see them talk about their loneliness across the internet. To deny it is to deny the pain that so many men admit for themselves, albeit only when in private or anonymous spaces.
A lot of men don't have this deep trust in their lives, and I say this not out of malice but out of sympathy and concern. You deserve to know the kind of trust referenced here.
Just what kind of trust you need? Many trust me, they also think I'm a moron and look down on me.
Gatekeeping: Half a star
I once knew a girl who shaved her head bald. Her default response to "Does the carpet match the drapes?" was "That depends, is my head bleeding?"
How often is she asked that question though?
Blonde and ginger women get asked plenty.
I can easily see a shaved head elicit the same dubious approach.
Any woman I've ever talked with has their fair share of weird, inappropriate crap thrown their way, this just par for the course.Using my powers of induction: "mmm... often enough to need a default answer."
I've listened to Vital Remains' Let Us Pray once every couple weeks for the past 15 years and can't name one song off of the album. I can play the guitar parts along to it, half the time I can't even remember the name of the band. This is not vital info to my brain.
I would suggest telling them to go fuck themselves and moving on.
There are very few bands I could name five songs from, even though I really like music.
I live in fear of this type of person, especially as someone who listens to metal which tends to be male-dominated. I'm an album person and I'm not always checking the table of contents when I listen. There are bands I've been a fan of for over a decade that I don't have five songs memorized for. I love these bands and I don't think I'm fake for liking them or wearing a shirt.
Just tell them to fuck off, who cares about assholes
My brain just doesn't respond well to those type of questions anyway. Most brains don't, which is why those 'gotcha' street interview videos are so common. Most of those people aren't idiots, they're just panicking.
"Name 5 nations" "..uhhhhh, Antarctica, Canada, Texas, London, Taiwan"
"Oof, two out of five, no money for you, just public shame."
Just remember you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. People that gate-keep like this aren't worth your time anyways.
I (~40 year old dude) had a similar thought when I saw this post. I like spaceslug a lot (and I'm wearing one of their tshirts right now!) but I don't really know individual songs. Lemanis is a great album and Memorial has some good tracks, but names? Uhhh
"Oh you are a Valkyrie fan? Name every Valkyrie in existance" meme.jpg
Um, Mist 😅
The women I know who are into metal are way more into the band than almost any straight men I know.
Who even asks that? Or Am I wooshing myself?
Shhh! Witches, patriarchy, and the characters in this story... None of this is real 🤫
I think it was a trend going around in tiktok
Is that comeback considered "good"? Why? It doesn't even make any sense.
Because the kind of guy that asks random people to prove their fandom probably does not have many close friends.
The sort of men who come out with phrases like that are (almost universally) arseholes. Having a default response, that can be rolled out quickly, and hit at emotional sore spots is useful.
As for why it works, if they are willing to come out with that line, then either a massively misogynistic, or badly socially stunted and rude. Both will drive women away aggressively (and likely a lot of male friends).
Him asking her to name 5 songs is nasty, it shows he's a bully whose looking to embarrass her. That indicates women are less likely to trust him
Still, you can expect a comeback to not be a complete offtop.
Yes, the first phrase has a goal of embarrassing the owner of the t-shirt, but comeback in the style of "yo momma is so fat that..." is embarrassing to the giver, not to the receiver.
Even "Can YOU name 5 songs?" would be much-much better.
Because it's an asshole thing to say. Any comeback will be good.
Agree. I'm thinking "why do you even care whether I'm a big fan or not?", or "I don't need to prove anything to you", would work better
That still leaves you as the subject. The meme response puts the focus on the asshole.
"I have not made any attempt to memorize song names"
"I don't want to share names of family and friends"
If I was asked to give names, I would strongly consider listing names from Mambo No. 5. While humming the tune to remember the names.
Bold of you to assume I associate with 5 people!
On impulse my subconscious cognitive stack attempted to run this check on myself before I even finished reading it and it was kind of a pleasant surprise to find myself spoiled for choice o_o
(if i had to narrow it down just five: 1. my best friend who i met through a niche fandom in 2012, 2. the friend i've had the longest since we were in middle school in the late '90s, 3. my partner, 4. the person who owns the discord server i consider my home, and 5. someone i used to date but we've kinda been DM penpals for years because of overlapping interests and i looove the fiction she writes online ^^)
glad i'm not the kind of dipshit who would try to gatekeep someone for their interests, although i fear i might run afoul of it by accident because i'll see someone wearing a Dream Theater shirt and be SO excited that they're into a band I used to be crazy about back in the day that I blurt out dumb superlative questions in a hamfisted attempt to socialize x_x;
OH WOW WHATS YOUR FAVORITE SONG gosh i havent listened to them in way too long i used to listen to six degrees of inner turbulence on like a daily basis and they'll mistake my eagerness for aggression ;~;
i fucking hate being amab...
There's a huge difference between "name five" and "what's your favourite" in my opinion. And if they can't name even one (I pinch band tees off my girlfriends to wear all the time) then you can use that as an excuse to be like "you should really check them out, can I show you my fav?" then pull out your phone and play it for them! :)
Yeah, there's a chasm between them.
- "Name five" -> "I bet you can't"
- "What's your favorite?" -> "I sincerely want to know"
I find niche interest infodumps cute, not agressive. Regardless of whether I have any interest in the niche or not.
Oh absolutely 💜 if they're passionate about a subject I can listen to someone talk about practically Anything! Enthusiasm is infectious in the best possible ways... I wish I had more opportunities to encourage people to let loose about the stuff they love.
Woah woah woah friend, it’s okay.
I’m preeeetty sure most reasonable people will catch on to the eagerness in your tone, and going over-niche infodump is a world of difference from a short, accusatory line.
Awkward sincerity isn’t a sin.
