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Elon Musk isn't really part of MAGA though. He joined Trump and MAGA shortly before the election and now got chewed up by Trump like anyone else did. Nobody on the Republican side gives a shit about him. With his money he can make trouble but thinking this is a turning point is silly. It's just more chaos.
More like, he paid his bribe, got to rip up regulations and stop litigation that was costing him money, smashed a bunch of shit as a distraction, then fucked off.
And stole everyone's data
Trump and MAGA will be more than happy to let him take credit and the blame for doge. Although it really was the think tank behind project 2025. Passing the blame to Musk is a win for Trump. So that is part of being used, chewed up by his remaining fans and then thrown away like the garbage he is. We'll see how his net worth develops.
I'd say that Musk was just as big of a part of MAGA as anyone else. Quite a bit more than most really because he ran a whole ass government agency so he and Trump could harm their political/business opponents.
Even though the Leopard ate his face, he still voted for/ promoted/ worked for/ and donated hundreds of millions of dollars to the Leopard. Musk is in no way a victim here.
Sure, he got 'chewed up' (I guess), but so did Hitlers supporters when they outlived their usefulness. It's really not surprising.
Nobody on the Republican side gives a shit about him.
Name anybody (besides themselves) that they do care about? Caring about people isn't exactly the Republicans strong suit.
I agree it's not really a 'turning point' but don't underestimate the number of people (MAGAt's or not) who are Musk ball lickers. Those people will 'pick a side' and not everyone will choose Trump. They are both Fascists though, so the people end up losing either way.
I guess my main point is that Elon doesn't really have a "base" any more. Neither the neoliberal technologists and futurists he charmed nor MAGA are on his side any more. He burned his bridges with public support. So he only has his money to influence representatives. And is empire is crumbling too.
What prompted me is that the neoliberal mainstream press and social media is jumping on this as if it was a turning point. This is another "Trump is in deep trouble now!" after he or someone else said something.
PS: I'd be curious where Peter Thiel stands, the handler of Vance.
PPS: If Thiel backs the impeachment Thiel will become president and that might align with their goals to dismantle democracy in the US.
Neither the neoliberal technologists and futurists he charmed nor MAGA are on his side any more.
This is true. The only people that will remain loyal to Mush are centrists/ politically disinterested people. I think that will turn out to be a lot of people, but not enough to really do any damage. I can see some neolibs who bought Teslas stanning for him in the hopes they will regain some of the value in their vehicles.
I'm more concerned with Musk's wealth, he can do a lot of damage with that still. Not as much as the government can do, but not insignificant either. If he feels like he is being attacked, I can see him doing some really disgusting things to get revenge.
I’d be curious where Peter Thiel stands, the handler of Vance.
My guess is as long as Trump plays by the rules and continues to chicken out on the Tarrifs, people like Theil will be content to stay in the background, silently pulling the strings. As soon as he starts actually hurting peoples bottom lines, that's when we will see dissent. That is almost certainly why Musk cut and ran.
If Thiel backs the impeachment Thiel will become president and that might align with their goals to dismantle democracy in the US.
I think people like Theil and Trump are equally committed to dismantling democracy (in practice if not in name), so I don't think it matters who is running things. They have to be careful about it too, since they have propped him up and Trump is a megalomaniac who actually thinks he deserves to be where his and his base are rabidly, stupidly obedient to him.
The only people that will remain loyal to Mush are centrists/ politically disinterested people.
What do you define as a centrist in that context? From an European viewpoint, most democrats are right-wing politicians, some of them even far right. Bernie Sanders is the only one that comes to mind that could be seen as center-left.
And politically disinterested people don't sound like a relevant political force...
They have to be careful about it too, since they have propped him up and Trump is a megalomaniac who actually thinks he deserves to be where his and his base are rabidly, stupidly obedient to him.
They created a quite sizeable cult of personality around Trump. Getting rid of him will at least hurt during the next election. That is, if there is an election and the magats have the mental capacity to remember what happened a year ago from then.
What do you define as a centrist in that context.
I'm referring to people who vote, but they claim to be the 'reasonable' middle ground between Democrats and Republicans. They are right wingers who don't feel strongly one way or the other, because they are either completely ignorant about politics, or get their information from American mainstream media (pretty much the same thing).
Basically they have no real values and only know that they are satisfied with the status quo and will vote for whomever they think will maintain it. There is a lot of overlap between these pseudo-intellectuals and people who boot lick Musk.
From an European viewpoint, most democrats are right-wing politicians, some of them even far right.
I'm not a Democrat I'm a leftist, so I view it that way as well
Bernie Sanders is the only one that comes to mind that could be seen as center-left
AOC has had some pretty decent takes, but like Sanders she is a politician in America and has to play the game so who knows what she actually believes in. I believe her heart is probably in the right place at least.
And politically disinterested people don't sound like a relevant political force...
They're not. I wasn't trying to imply Musk would run for office or anything. I'm just saying they are likely to be the type of people ignorant enough to continue to support him.
If there is another election and they are going to pretend it's legitimate, Trump would have to overturn the 22nd amendment to the Constitution to be eligible to run. A constitutional amendment requires a 2/3 vote from both houses of congress, and that is not likely to happen.
That doesn't mean the dumbass won't try to pull some sketchy shit and I honestly wouldn't put it past him to try.
Thanks for more insight.
I've seen some AOC memes but didn't really notice her beyond that. Again, European viewpoint. She doesn't really make it into European news.
That doesn't mean the dumbass won't try to pull some sketchy shit and I honestly wouldn't put it past him to try.
I read something about right-wingers trying to claim that the 22nd amendment only says that nobody should be elected twice, so if Trump gets into office without getting elected, everything is fine. So their plan is to get someone else elected in Trump's stead and that person should then just appoint Trump as the new president, because according to them, that's apparently possible. And with their surpreme pile of garbage that they call a court, that might just work.
Scary times.
Fortunately, that doesn't work either, there are several issues with that logic.
We are still (nominally) a type of Democracy. That means our 'leaders' must be elected. The 22nd only addresses term limits, the constitution itself spells out how the President comes into power in the first place, and that is by being elected. Nowhere is the President granted the power to appoint someone else to the office. The 25th amendment lays out who is to be president in the event that the current one is unwilling/unable to perform their duties.
Still, we are talking about if he at least wants to have the appearance of legitimacy. He's certainly argued that he can 'creatively interpret' the constitution to suit his agenda. For example, despite the 14th amendment stating that "...all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." the Trump administration has tried to claim that 'all people' do not include people who's parents were 'illegal immigrants', despite the Supreme Court precedent that it most certainly does include them.
I do have some faith that Americans would not stand for that though. That would be the final straw for many of us. If I am still around and something like that happens, I know it will be the final straw for me. I was born in a 'free' country, and I have no issues dying to help ensure it remains that way.
That being said there is nothing really stopping him from being the 'de facto' president in the case one of his lackeys gets elected and is willing to let him do so. For example if Vance were elected he could allow Trump to attend meetings and press conferences and speak on his behalf. He could be appointed an 'advisor' and Vance could follow his 'advice' every time. Hell he could allow Trump to sleep in his bed and use his toothbrush if he wanted.
Hopefully the DNC will pull it's fucking corporate boot licking head out of its ass and put up a candidate that's actually worth a damn for the next election, but that's about as likely as Trump stepping down gracefully.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I wish I believed in God, I would ask you to pray for us.
I researched a little to figure out what they are on about, and there seem to be three main options, depending on how much of a semblance of a democracy they want to keep up.
The simplest yet weakest way is what you described: A shadow president. Worked for Putin, why should it not work for Trump. The downside: If the puppet president develops a mind of his own, things can turn ugly(er).
The next option is to have Trump become vice presidet (the presidential term limit doesn't seem to apply to VP), then have the president resign and make Trump president instead, claiming that the 22nd only limits being elected twice, which might be ok with the letter of the law, but only an idiot or a tyrant would interpret it that way.
The third option would be to have the president use the appointment clause, which is very vague about to what exact offices the president can appoint someone. It doesn't explicitly state that the president can't appoint someone else to the office of president. But again, only an idiot or a tyrant would interpret it that way.
The next option is to have Trump become vice presidet (the presidential term limit doesn’t seem to apply to VP), then have the president resign and make Trump president instead, claiming that the 22nd only limits being elected twice...
That might have worked, if not for the 12th Amendment, which has this clause "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
which might be ok with the letter of the law, but only an idiot or a tyrant would interpret it that way.
That may end up being where we run into issues. I have seen no evidence that the majority in the SCOTUS has a problem being either. And since they have lifetime appointments they are under no pressure whatsoever to do a good job. One of the main problems with our constitution.
The third option would be to have the president use the appointment clause, which is very vague about to what exact offices the president can appoint someone. It doesn’t explicitly state that the president can’t appoint someone else to the office of president.
It does actually, the Appointments Clause appears at Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution and states:
"... and [the President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law"
"Herein" in this case refers to the Constitution itself, and it definitely does 'provide' for the "appointment" of the President.
I'm not at all surprised that their evil plot revolves around them not understanding the constitution, many Republicans like to pretend they love the constitution when in reality most don't understand it, and the ones that do think they can simply ignore or change the parts that they don't like.
Basically Trump only really has 2 options if he wants to remain in power. Have the constitution amended to remove the term limits established by the 22nd (which again isn't likely) or do something illegal and have the SCOTUS back him up, which is sadly a little more likely.
I almost hope he tries something like that and that there are enough decent people in the Military who would actually uphold their oaths to the constitution to make such a coup impossible to sustain. That might wake people up enough to realize how they came to installing a dictator, and maybe move enough people Left that we can actually do some things to fix our broken system. It would be great if we would get rid of the Republican and Democratic parties and/or at the very least get rid of our atrocious "First past the post" voting system (along with the Electoral College) which is where a lot of the problems in our country can be traced back to.
Better yet I wouldn't mind if we scrapped the whole "Liberal Democracy" idea altogether and wrote a new Constitution that treats all people as if they are equals and not slaves to the rich and powerful, but I wont hold my breath hoping for that one, we need to educate people first. We have been the victims of hundreds of years of propaganda (which really ramped up in the 20th century), and you can't reverse that damage overnight.
Wonder how happy centrists are gonna be when he endorses newsom in 2028.
Please, don't even joke about it.
Who was joking?
He wasn't MAGA, but DARK GOTHIC MAGA.
The exulted digital aristocrat, Captain of Industry and technofeudalist Lord Musk
he made his own MAGA hats what are you on about
Musk was Trump's biggest financial backer during the campaign and his most loyal ally.
I mean he doesn't really any roots or supporters among MAGA like e.g. Steve Bannon. Musk "joined" MAGA shortly before the elections, but MAGA is already... over 10 years old? Musk wasn't part of that and doesn't really "speak to" MAGA either. The people he appealed to didn't come from MAGA. It was clear to MAGAts as well that he's just an opportunist and a useful tool. They liked him because he's an absurd clown that makes liberals cry. @pyre@lemmy.world
funny, all the crying I've seen has come from him. literally bought a social media site to use it almost exclusively for constant crying.