The inarguable case for banning social media for teens
The inarguable case for banning social media for teens
A large consensus is forming, not before time
This is ageism. Social media should be banned for everyone.
I don't believe you read the article nor gave this any thought before you made your flippant comment. Also, you give no reasoning for your dogmatic statements.
I read the piece and have been thinking about this daily for thirty years.
The guy is right and the piece sucks.
It's borderline satanic panic that hasn't thought through the downstream ramifications of even attempting to implement age gates online. And as the previous poster says the negative effects of social media are at the absolute least just as bad in adults. The scaremongering about drug dealers and pedophiles is just that.
Internet anonymity in general is a terrible thing and I would do away with it if I could. I'm impossible to say who's a real person, who's a bot, who's an alternate account. It's allowed every evil and terrible person to find others like them and embolden each other without the oversight of social pressure from the rest of society which I think is an essentially needed social cue of healthy human communities.
Yes I realize the irony of posting this on Lemmy.
Okay cattywampas, if that even is your real name.
OK, legal name, Id
Give
L take. There's no shortage of people on FB posting under their real names some takes that are no better than those of the average /pol/ user. Anonymity is not the problem here.
It's complicated. The current state of the internet is dominated by corporate interests towards maximal profit, and that's driving the way websites and services are structured towards very toxic and addictive patterns. This is bigger than just "social media."
However, as a queer person, I will say that if I didn't have the ability to access the Internet and talk to other queer people without my parents knowing, I would be dead. There are lots of abused kids who lack any other outlets to seek help, talk to people and realize their problems, or otherwise find relief for the crushing weight of familial abuse.
Navigating this issue will require grace, awareness and a willingness to actually address core problems and not just symptoms. It doesn't help that there is an increasing uptick of purity culture and "for the children" legislation that will curtail people's privacy, ability to use the internet and be used to push queer people and their art or narratives off of the stage.
Requiring age verification reduces anonymity and makes it certain that some people will be unable to use the internet safely. Yes, it's important in some cases, but it's also a cost to that.
There's also the fact that western society has systemically ruined all third spaces and other places for children to exist in that isn't their home or school. It used to be that it was possible for kids and teens to spend time at malls, or just wandering around a neighborhood. There were lots of places where they were implicitly allowed to be- but those are overwhelmingly being closed, commericalized or subject to the rising tide of moral panic and paranoia that drives people to call the cops on any group of unknown children they see on their street.
Police violence and severity of response has also heightened, so things that used to be minor, almost expected misdemeanors for children wandering around now carry the literal risk of death.
So children are increasingly isolated, locked down in a context where they cannot explore the world or their own sense of self outside the hovering presence of authority- so they turn to the internet. Cutting that off will have repercussions. Social media wouldn't be so addictive for kids if they had other venues to engage with other people their age that weren't subject to the constant scrutiny of adults.
Without those spaces, they have to turn to the only remaining outlet. This article is woefully inadequate to answer the fundamental, core problems that produce the symptoms we are seeing; and, it's implementation will not rectify the actual problem. It will only add additional stress to the system and produce a greater need to seek out even less safe locations for the people it ostensibly wishes to protect.
This is the newest 'think of the children' panic.
Yes, social media is harmful because companies are making it harmful. It's not social media that's the root cause, and wherever kids go next those companies will follow and pollute unless stopped. Social Isolation is not "safety", it's damaging as well, and social media is one of the last, freely-accessible social spaces kids have.
We didn't solve smoking adverts for kids by banning kids from going places where the adverts were, we banned the adverts and penalized the companies doing them.
Videogaming, porn and gambling gave boys such dopamine hits that anything else they did felt boring.
Kids these days don't understand the rush of dumping their entire allowance into 15 minutes of Street Fighter, comitting borderline felonies while riding bicycles around the neighborhood, and then going into the woods to jerk it to that one Playboy before going over Steve's house to worship the devil.
This is exactly the conversation that happened in Parliament over the Australian social media ban and its absurd.
There is a broad recognition that in a regulatory vacuum corporate social media created toxic and addictive "engagement"-maximising algorithms that harm all facets of society exposed to them.
So a solution is proposed: ban it for children.
When exactly, did it become fine for corporations to actively and deliberately harm people as long as they were old enough? How about preventing the harm?
It would be just as easy for a government to ban opaque and engagement maximising feed algorithms. But they went with the option that allows "tech" giants to keep harming the less marketable 80% of the population.
I was expecting a much stronger argument based on the headline.
Personally I'd prefer regulation on how social media is structured and how algorithms operate. First thing I'd do is ban infinite scroll, which corporations like because it increases 'engagement' whilst harming the quality of the experience for their users.
The argument they make seems to boil down to, there's various reasons to believe that social media can be a negative influence on teenagers, social media companies are intentionally manipulative and amoral, the idea of this type of social media ban is popular with the public in polls, and the Trump administration opposes social media regulation. So yeah, not all that comprehensive. Notably lacking is a case that a youth ban is actually the right solution and wouldn't cause its own harms, an explanation of why teenagers and adults are so different here and what that implies, or an acknowledgement of the cases against such a ban (for instance they make an uncritically positive reference to last year's ban by Australia which is extremely controversial and has a lot of good arguments against it, like the privacy disaster of making everyone prove their identity to post online). To be fair the whole thing seems like mostly a really brief summary of The Anxious Generation, maybe that book makes a stronger point.
It has to be acknowledged that much of what makes up human culture and society is online now, and will continue to be going forward. The real question should be, what do we want that society to look like, and how do we move in that direction? Probably there is a lot more to it than passing laws that ban things. Calling social media digital crack and demanding teenagers to go live in a past that doesn't exist anymore seems like a very head-in-sand attitude to me.
No; it's not inarguable.
I do feel that some minor limitations around social media should exist; such as hours of the day you may not be allowed to read or post; but they should be simple age-gates created to privately verify a person's age via a simple SSO/OAuth style token. If you can't authenticate against some privacy respecting identity proving entity you probably aren't old enough and any account(s) you create would be limited.
Not all social media needs to be age-gated either; but social networks could be forced by law to avoid monetizing your account or habits at all if you don't willingly identify. (and by doing so; also CONSENT TO THIS MONETIZATION) In short; if you are not verified they're required to assume you are a child and handle your data as such...with utmost respect to your privacy.
Man, I still really struggle to understand how we can reliably age-gate anything on the Internet without sacrificing privacy for everyone.
IRL you can just show your govt issued ID, but there's virtually zero privacy risk doing so. Bouncers don't register ID scans, typically, and they're just one person. The govt doesn't know you went to that club or drank at that one bar, unless they're actively surveilling you.
But if I needed to identify myself as an adult online, simply by virtue of how digital systems work, that probably requires checking against a govt database, and that database will keep logs, and now Trump knows I went to Pornhub, and likely also exactly what I watched or searched for.
Maybe I'm dumb, but I really don't know any way around this sort of thing.
Haidt ... is campaigning internationally to end the “phone-based childhood”. He says... Videogaming, porn and gambling gave boys such dopamine hits that anything else they did felt boring.
This is pseudo-science.
I remember reading a Haidt article for an ethics class in grad school. The analysis felt... underwhelming? It's been too long to remember the article, but I think it was something about the "morality" of conservatives being not worse but different than liberals (limited to the US, iirc). I just remember reading it and going... yeah conservative morality functions differently. It's also just demonstrably worse, though, even based on what the article was focusing on?
That class was weird though. Mostly just a bunch of folks going,"yeah well this is what I care about" and disagreeing with each other with seemingly no intention whatsoever to try and evaluate or engage with one another.
How would they implement such a law?
without it becoming the most broken law.
By bringing the violence of the state down upon children.
As a thought experiment, it's somewhat fascinating to ask what "social media" has done. I don't really consider anything past MySpace truly social. The term now means "let's keep you addicted to posts from people you'll never meet" -- essentially, the modern form of checkstand tabloids.
I mean, I don't disagree on the broad strokes, but it does beg the question:
What are you doing here?
This is that. You're on social media. We don't allow smoking and drinking for adults because it's any less harmful for them, it's just that we choose to let grownups choose whether they want to mess themselves up.
So why do you choose to mess yourself up and what should society do about it?
it’s somewhat fascinating to ask what “social media” has done... The term now means “let’s keep you addicted to posts from people you’ll never meet”
Sure, if you assume the worst possible definition of "social media", then it probably hasn't done anything worthwhile.
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Ah, yes. Truly, I cannot argue against this impeccable logic. I am swayed.
https://ghostarchive.org/archive/2yvgd
Also, see if you can install Bypass Paywalls Clean.
Thanks. Just installed a new OS and I'm still working out the kinks. I had that extension installed previously but because it just works in the background I didn't even think to re-install it.
There should really be a different term for Instagram/TikTok/FB/etc style social media sites (I call them "push-style" social media, though "algorithmic" is probably a better term) and websites like public forums, chatting platforms, etc. The former is what I think this article is talking about. The latter seems both fine and necessary these days, even in some cases among children.
There are better terms but capitalist media doesn't attack its daddy.
Yes. Those are good points.
The few beneficiaries of social media include criminals. Drug dealers “reach teens on Snapchat they would never encounter in real life”
lol what? no they meet at school or on the block. how are they going to pick up the drugs?
Initial meetings and other communications like where to meet in person, etc.
I can't get my drug dealer to text me back and these kids are getting freebies on Snapchat? Fucking bullshit.
It's wild how easy it is to get in contact with small scale drug sellers on Snapchat. It's easier and more convenient to buy LSD off of Snapchat than buying alcohol at the alcohol store in many medium and large cities, even as an adult. There's lots of sellers to chose from, no verification of anything, open 24/7, convenient location, some even do home delivery. And they usually have lots of other stuff you probably want as well.
I'll cop to not having read the article and I'll say I might, but I can think of some pretty good ones. It's so children and teenagers can tell people when something bad is happening to them. Like being in a child marriage. Or being abused. Or being shot at in school. Or when their community is being preyed upon. Or when they're in a cult. Or when they're kidnapped and they have a phone. Or when they need to advocate for themselves against policy that chiefly affects them. Or when they're afraid something is happening to their friends. Or when they're suicidal. Or when they're lost. I could probably come up with a hundred of these. The thing is that children and teens are half-finished people and we afford people certain rights. So we need to decide if we'd rather treat kids as human or as another group of pawns to control. I loathe this debate.
Other link wasn't loading for me
Lemmy would be decimated.
nah, we'd win
