Should HOAs be banned?
Should HOAs be banned?
Banned is maybe too far, but why should we as a country allow people to have petty power over meaningless things their neighbors do? Could we ban HOAs from being included in house sales, and every time it's sold the new owners have to opt in?
For the most part, I'm wondering about this in the context of single family homes since for homes like condos, you could make the case that HOAs are useful for shared things like roofs and whatnot. Maybe limit mandatory HOA involvement to things like what's truly necessary and shared and not how tall your grass is?
This might be unpopular, but I don't think HOAs should be banned. WAIT! I, personally, think HOAs suck and I'd never agree to buying a home in an HOA. That said, not everyone feels that way. Some folks genuinely like living in HOAs, and for all the horror stories, there's at least a few where the HOA simply exists to provide amenities to the neighborhood i.e. playgrounds, walking trails, pools, etc. People should be free to choose the kind of housing arrangements they want, and if they want an HOA, then that's their prerogative.
The real problem with HOAs is that we're trying to solve the housing crisis exclusively with single family residential zoning, which means that HOAs are vastly overrepresented in terms of what's available on the housing market. It's fundamentally a zoning issue. People who don't want an HOA or can't spend $2,000/mo in mortgage plus another $300/mo or whatever in HOA fees should have options, but they kinda don't. Ask your city why their zoning sucks.
I’ve lived with good HOAs. I’d still rather they dissolve and everything be part of normal city operations.
Plus is it just me or are the same people that say they want small government also the ones who are super pro HOA?
An HOA can have a very positive effect on a neighborhood when handled properly, but inevitably a troublemaker gets on the board and starts making life miserable for everyone.
There was a recent local case where an elderly lady in her 80s accidentally underpaid her HOA dues by 30 cents. They started fining her, and before she figured out there was an issue, the fines were thousands of dollars, and she couldn't afford it. She tried to work it out with the HOA board, but they were immovable. Then they started foreclosure proceedings, and that's when she went to the local news.
This lady's house was paid off, and they had every intention of taking it away from her in her old age, over THIRTY CENTS!
The news tried to reason with the HOA, but they wouldn't be reasonable, and the last I heard, she was going to have to pay a lawyer to fight it in court.
No HOA should be able to take anyone's house away for any reason. Same with back property taxes, especially if a propery is fully paid off. It invites predatory behavior, and there are always people who will gleefully exploit such situations.
The HOA hate is completely overblown online. It's practically clickbait at this point. Just a framework for petty neighbour stories to entertain reddit teenagers with no real world experience.
I fell for it at first, and when my wife and I started looking for houses, I specified no HOAs. We saw a couple of houses that didn't have HOAs, and then I realized that while I personally would prefer not to be in an HOA, I really, really want my neighbors to be in one.
So we got a house with an HOA. It was a gated community of small houses in a bad neighborhood. The HOA handled trash pickup, maintenance of common areas, what little landscaping we had, and a couple other things that we wouldn't want to deal with on our own. Sometimes they'd hire a security guard to deter package theft. They charged a little more than I'd like to pay, but overall it was a positive experience. They sent us a letter once saying we had to replace our door. We didn't. Nothing ever came of it. And to be fair, they were right; that door is in terrible shape.
Now I live in a different neighborhood with a different HOA. Sometimes they send us an annoying letter saying I can't leave my trash cans out. It's a minor inconvenience. Overall another positive experience.
The vast majority of HOAs are fine. You don't hear about those because that's not entertaining. It's silly to think that the stories about petty old busybodies would be the norm.
Yes
Banned? The freedom cities will be the best HOAs ever.
Yes.
I believe some TIC agreements are structured as HOAs, which is perfectly reasonable --- but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're referring to here.
I wouldn't ban them, but I would make sure they need continual community buy-in to keep going. Make them automatically sunset if not renewed. Like, every ten years you have to get signatures from 2/3 of the home owners in the HOA in order to renew it. Good HOAs can keep going indefinitely or be reestablished later. Bad ones just disappear when they can't get enough signatures to keep the thing going.
I don't have a problem with people volunteering to bind themselves into a communal covenant. I do have a problem with the long dead hand of developers past binding people into a perpetual obligation. I know it is possible to dissolve HOAs, but it requires getting the vast majority of homeowners to come together to actively choose to revoke it. I would use the opposite system. Every ten years you need a supermajority of homeowners to commit to renewing it.
This is obviously in the context of single family homes. They're unavoidable in condos.
Disclaimer: I'm very anti-HOA. But I do think the case could be made for them in high-density housing like apartment buildings and condos.
Single family homes, though, no. When I was house shopping, I removed any that were part of an HOA from my search. I'm not saying there are no "good" HOAs, but I've heard too many horror stories, and good HOAs can become bad HOAs over time, and your only recourse is to move. No thanks.
I don't think they should be banned, per se, they definitely need reigned in as far as what they can mandate and an opt-out mechanism. I'm not sure how the latter would work if there's things like street maintenance, etc that's part of it, but I'm sure some solution could be found.
Yes.
HOAs, at base, are there because the municipality the development is being built in doesn’t want to pay for anything. Not paying is part of the deal worked with developers that now has inertial momentum to it such that it’s baked into just about every new development.
Houses, people, and taxes are added to the municipality with as little responsibility as possible. It’s a great deal, for them.
The grift is this. Normally, sidewalks, parks, and snow management fall to the city, town, or village governments. With HOAs, the town government gets to say it’s not our responsibility, let that neighborhood manage itself. We don’t want to pay for another park or police the snow, so build your houses within our borders, but leave us out of it. The town grows, has enough people to attract new business, but adds less new costs and responsibility than they otherwise would.
So now the people are managing themselves and the only enforcement on it is the risk of losing your house (having it sold out from under you to pay random fees), depending on how Karen the people in the HOA happen to be.
Example. You’re alone in the world. You get sick and end up in an extended hospital stay, let’s say 62 days. It’s a GI problem and you had an ileus. Your lawn isn’t mowed for the duration. You finally get a taxi ride home and find you’ve been fined $1000 a day for 6 weeks because your lawn isn’t mowed. Alongside the incredible medical bills, you can’t pay this. A lien is placed on your home.
That this scenario is even possible with HOAs is very wrong.
An HOA makes perfect sense in a condo scenario because people share walls and the HOA deals with building management. But with single family homes, absolutely not. At that point, it’s no longer a single family home but a condo, just not one that shares walls.
Objectively yes. We don't need an extra government to cover the job of the actual government, especially not ones that are easy for psychopaths to infiltrate. Your park? That's the damn state's responsibility, pay your fair share of taxes instead and let the city handle it. Your home value? Don't treat housing as a damn vehicle for investment. All those nasty poors and minorities? If they bother you find a way to leave earth, permanently.
HOAs are emblematic of everything wrong with America and actively strip away the good parts.
I think at least HOA’s should be banned from requiring certain plants in your yard. Namely grass. HOA’s should not be able to prevent people from replacing their lawns with native and edible plants.
I think HOAs and Business Improvement districts persist because they fill a need for hyper local government that the existing, formal governments are not fullfilling. HOAs don't need to be banned, they need to be replaced with something else that better fulfills this niche but is more regulated and accountable.
Yes. When we bought our first house we were told the HOA was optional. The day after closing they showed up and told us we were part of it. We needed to start paying our dues, and we needed a copy of the rules. That was $140 for a photo copy of a photo copy of a photo copy at least 13 times over. It was totally illegible.
My elderly grand mother was visiting, so we moved our car to the visitor spot so she could be parked in front of the house. We were towed.
My car had a flat, we were towed because the car appeared to be abandoned.
Everything about it was a nightmare. Shortly before we moved we found out the president no longer lived in the area, and was embezzling. He was reelected after that was revealed to the rest if the neighborhood, but no one was allowed to see the votes.
Could we ban HOAs from being included in house sales, and every time it’s sold the new owners have to opt in?
This is a really good suggestion.
Maybe limit mandatory HOA involvement to things like what’s truly necessary and shared and not how tall your grass is?
A shared maintenance cost for very specific things like the community center, garbage pick-up, the roads, etc., is a great idea.
They've just figured out a way to be racist and get rid of neighbors they don't like. They should be remade at the very least.
My neighborhood's HOA has been pretty chill the few years I've lived here. The fees pay for the pool, landscaping, walking path maintenance, etc. Maybe I'd feel different if one of my neighbors was finding and reporting a bunch of violations, but so far it seems like the HOA has been good for my neighborhood. I'm sure other places get out of hand, but it's not always the nightmare people make it out to be online.
The city I grew up in (population around 30,000) made HOAs mandatory for any development of 5 or more homes. Why? The city council got fed up mediating disputes between neighbors. People would go and expect the city council to get involved if their neighbors fence was ugly, or the lawn was unkept, or their party was too big. It started happening every meeting so they decided forcing everyone into an HOA would force them to solve it themselves.
I won't live in an HOA. But that being said, I don't really have an issue with other people wanting to live in an HOA.
However, I do not like the fact that the HOA has permanent authority over any property you purchase inside of its zone.
I feel like there should be a specific and reasonable amount of money that you can pay in order to exempt your home from the HOA permanently, a method to break the HOA contract at least for as long as you live there.
Like maybe the HOA could reinstate the contract once you move out, and the next owner would have to break it again, but at least while you're living there, you should be able to be exempt from them if you so choose.
A thousand times YES
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned it yet, but HOAs are a holdover of practices to keep minorities from moving into neighborhoods. They still are sets of discriminatory practices, reinventing themselves in pettier ways.
Tl;dr fuck HOAs.
Imagine Bob is a city construction worker with a work vehicle. He and his wife both park in the driveway, so he has to park the work vehicle on the street. The HOA digs up a rule to keep slapping fines on his vehicle because Bob is “making the neighborhood unsightly,” aka neighbor Jane doesn’t want to live in a “blue-collar” neighborhood.
I think I can offer some perspective as someone who works in the real estate industry and is on an HOA BOD.
Of the hundreds of clients I've worked with, only 1 ever wanted an HOA, because he didn't have one and it was awful. We're talking fences laid on the ground, grass several feet high, vehicles parked all over the front lawn, the entire yard front and back being used as a landfill, you name it.
HOAs are essentially the smallest form of government. The HOA carries the force of law. This also tends to attract the worst people for the job. Think about it; who's going to take time out of their day to volunteer on behalf of the community? People who want power over others.
People are petty as fuck. One person receives one citation and they become salty and begin seeking out and reporting every single violation they can find, which just makes it awful to live in.
Could we ban HOAs from being included in house sales, and every time it's sold the new owners have to opt in?
That would completely invalidate the purpose of the HOA.
I think they have the potential to be good if they were way more democratic, but they're never run that way.
When I lived in a townhouse that was part of an HOA that had some nice things going for it. There were a couple tennis courts, a swimming pool, a communal garden, a club house thing you can pay to use, they regularly mowed the front yards and trimmed the front hedges and they would periodically repaint the fronts of the houses. However, while I was living there, the head of the HOA was a douche that kept misusing funds.
The house my sister lives in has an HOA that does literally nothing except bitch residents to upkeep their lawn.
HOAs can be really good things but have all the same problems as regular democracies, mainly voter apathy. If the members of the HOA don't keep informed about the issues in the neighborhood, don't attend meetings, and don't vote, then you very quickly end up with a few assholes gaining power and doing whatever they want.
Most of the suggestions I see in the comments would also render HOAs powerless and essentially pointless.
Should HOAs be banned?
That's an easy one:
YES!!!
Yes, definitely. They’re just bullies trying to rebrand themselves.
I like my HOA, but I live in a condo building. We all pitch in to keep the roof repaired and the common areas cleaned, and the few rules just make life tolerable in such a confined space (quiet hours, for example). I can't imagine what good an HOA does for single-family homes.
Absolutely.
No they shouldn't be banned. You don't want to line in one? Fine don't live there. No one is forcing you to buy there. Let those who want to live there, well... Leave them alone if that's what they want. What does it matter to anyone else?
Please note I'm not trying to attack the op. My comments are meant for anyone trying to ban them.
For those that live in an hoa and have a bad board, go run for office and get the idiots voted out. Either that or move. Probably cheaper to run for office and then fix the problems.
for regular ass house on a regular ass street, yes. exceptions are made for condominiums, apartment complexes and gated communities.
Waiting for the inevitable showdown over having hens in your backyard. Instant solution to the egg problem.
I mean I highly dislike them but also feel like many people like them for the exact reasons I dislike them.
Yes.