Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact covered up by the usual patriotism somehow?
Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact covered up by the usual patriotism somehow?
A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A "rogue state" is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is "the international order"?
Well, it's the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of "legitimate" behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it's framed as upholding "rules-based order" whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as "rogue states".
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
It's covered up yeah, most of the republicans are too dumb to realize it.
Many Americans are unaware of the problems due to media censorship.
However they're creating so many problems that even those with blinders on are seeing this shit.
I see the American media as softballing fascism, or they're just outright complicit.
No one will call shit what it is, and every fucking thing in the news needs to be both-sides-ed.
This doesn't help with the less educated grasping these basic concepts, nor does the massive stigmatization of intelligence and critical thinking, nor does the attacks on institutional education.
There's laws constantly being passed in the form of 'vouchers' to drain public school funds and funnel American kids into Christian indoctrination, and our public schools are now dramatically underfunded.
So I guess I understand why more than half the population just straight up ignores politics. because reality here is really depressing.
There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I've seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don't really follow the news), who don't believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like "oh so when the Democrats do it it's okay, but now the Trump is doing it it's wrong??? You fucking communist!"
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It's the only explanation I have. These aren't random people I don't know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don't see a way to help them that doesn't involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it's going to make me resent them, and I don't want that.
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Aware and trying to let others in my circle that are unaware become aware.
To some 20%-30% of the country 'patriot' means 'whites only'. Honestly, if your so dedicated to being a patriotic American you can't stand up to a government doing everything it can to destroy America, you're just an idiot.
No "average" person is aware because they are too busy trying to just survive. Nobody wants to chance losing what they've worked so hard for. The only people who watch the news are seniors and disabled people, and they're being misled if they just watch TV news.
People who call themselves Republicans are happy with what's going on. People who call themselves Democrat are not happy but think they need to work within the system to solve the issues and wait until the next election. Libertarians have sided with the Republicans. Socialism is still a taboo way of thinking for the most part here.
Then you have disabled people (like me) who are watching what is happening in horror and have sky high anxiety wondering if they're next to be disappeared or homeless. I can stand for maybe 30 minutes at most, holding a sign maybe 15 minutes at most. So I'm doing what I can and that is trying to live as if things are "normal" to continue on my mental health recovery and sobriety journey at the same time being horrified and terrified of what's to come. It's a weird duality that I don't like. I told my therapist the other day that I have hope for the future for my recovery but I have lost all hope in what is going on politically and in the news.
A lot of this I also blame on false American beliefs fed to us in school that we were safe from all of this nonsense because of our constitution. The American Dream and all that B.S. They sugar-coat our history as a country in schools -- at least they did when I went to school in the 80's/90's, I don't know about now. It's as if America only has a rosy history, even the Civil War is glorified in false narratives.
It's easy to see how we got to this point as a country. The question is, how do we get ourselves out of it?
We’re aware. People who get all their news from Fox or ignore politics in general probably aren’t but even my conservative family members are embarrassed about the threats to Canada and Greenland. Canadians are generally considered super nice and polite by Americans so pissing them off crossed a line. Even apolitical people probably know the U.S. National Anthem is being booed at sporting events.
There’s elections in several states today that will provide some data to know more. Louisiana had an election on Saturday and rejected 4 constitutional amendments supported by Republicans. None even got 40%. Louisiana is an oddball state so I’m not sure it’s a harbinger of today’s elections but if voters in Wisconsin and elsewhere vote like Louisiana, it’ll be very telling.
The average American voter is hilariously unengaged. Many of them read at an 8th grade level at best. We're suffering the consequences of an education system that has been tragically underfunded for generations, and our media institutions are thoroughly compromised. Because of this, media literacy may as well be non-existent. The worst actors in our public institutions know this and have chosen to capitalize on it. Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
We are completely lacking the most crucial part of any functional democracy - an informed electorate. We have the least qualified people making the most important decisions.
The United States is effectively a failed state. Many of us recognize this, but our options for addressing the problem are limited. We not only have to dislodge the largest defense structure the world has ever seen, but we have to somehow fix the plague of weaponized stupidity that is conservative culture in order to ensure the worst humans don't end up in powerful positions.
If you have any suggestions on how to start fixing that, I'm all ears.
We're successfully distracted by the more immediate personal problems they've created for us
Imagine reading some fiction book, like fantasy or something like that.
You see a state that was created by genocide, which was continued until there was barely anyone left to kill, which state then became world hegemon, took control over nearly entire planet economy and proceeded to find new targets for genocide, ecocide, invasion, looting and murdering every political opponent.
You would think it's caricaturally evil, worse than Mordor.
And here you ask "they are now definitely a rogue state"? Now?
It's been a rogue state for decades, they call it 'American Exceptionalism', and the 'patriotic Americans' are happy about it.
The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
Now? USA has been supporting a genocidal nuclear regime in palestine for decades. They've been threatening and attacking every state in the region. Total rogue.
Between the media surpression and the fact a lot of people don't follow the news, or give a shit, i'd say no.
I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can. Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case "something happens". People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.
Most of us are either completely deluded or utterly crushed by the collapse of our entire system of government. We know this is corrupt, and we want to organize to bring it to an end. But we have so many checks and balances that even if we all marched today with pitchforks and torches it wouldn't effect any real change without burning down every police station, city hall, state house, and the federal buildings. All while hoping the military doesn't show up and now us down with their weaponry. All the whole knowing that there has been a sharp rise in the popularity of police using violence and death as a deterrent.
In short, we know, and we can't see any way out of this mess. It wasn't supposed to be possible, and looking back we all saw it coming. But we were just dismissed as alarmists every time we spoke up and we are surrounded by morons who think this is the best thing that has ever happened to this national.
Roughly half of the population has absolutely no clue what's going on. Kids, old people, non-news-readers/viewers, etc.
A third of the population is vaguely aware that some shit is going down based on vibes but can't identify the problem.
Half the remaining sixth can identify the problem as political but misattribute the cause. Leaving just a 12th of the population actually aware of our situation.
We've been in a rogue state for a long time. Its been an oligarchy for a while, now you also have AIPAC in the mix.
Are people in the us aware... No!
The fascists own all the media organizations. The population has been taught systematically since birth to have unyielding blind faith in the institutions of the state and capital. Many won't understand that anything unusual is happening until they're hungry and cold, burying empty caskets for their drafted children sent to die in fascist wars of conquest.
I hope that people outside the US are aware of how quickly the rhetoric is shifting within the US. The right wing machine is rapidly spinning up a normalization of the ideas that: the US doesn’t need allies at all, the US has zero obligation to abide by international treaties, and the rest of the world is available for us to take. By ‘take’ I mean utter economic dominion and/or military conquest and/or territorial annexation.
The speed at which things are deteriorating here is shocking. An imperial US is a terrifying prospect. This deranged, entitled joke of a country has both an effectively endless supply of armaments and a depraved indifference to the suffering of people abroad and here at home.
The world has a metastasizing US problem.
The West Coast is well aware. I really can't see anyone in the US not being aware of our country's wannabe fascist status, even though some will plead ignorance. I'm kind of hoping maybe Oregon, Washington and California will get together and ask Canada if we can join them... with a probationary period of course. No one in their right mind can trust us outright at this point.
Thanks for the question lemmy.ml
Is your solution still to try and discourage people from voting? Or have we fully transitioned into, continue to blame Biden even though he hasn't been President since you all helped get Trump elected?
Trump supporters are full on gung ho! My parents fully are into ripping this nation apart. They are morbidly obese people that rely on medications to live. Who would die from these issues if medication gets cut off.
For some reason the administration and conservatives want to be a rogue state, they enjoy it. Rest of the country is either politically oblivious or helplessly defiant.
The USA was a rogue terrorist state already for decades in it's meaning for foreign policy and illegal wars. They did a worse thing than Russia did with Ukraine when they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan with flimsy excuses, except it was not a country on their doorstep but on the other side of the world.
Nobody is "aware" of this. People continue talking about US doing this or helping that as if they were not a rogue state.
So far Trump hasn't done anything irreversible "rogue state" in regards to international relations. He constantly sprays shit everywhere to get people to loose their minds. Yeah he's threatening to invade any nation where they could plunder, but he's only saying the quite part out loud. The US has been doing that for decades.
I also don't believe (hope) that Trump actually will start a war. It's not his stage. It's a long complicated affair where he isn't in the spotlight and doesn't get to shine and control the narrative with chaos and then hop onto the next thing the next week. He might bomb this or that as long as it's quick to do, but he only wants to appear as the big man. Obviously this is just speculation.
If you mean "failed state" or no longer a democracy, I don't think people think that already. They assume they can vote again for another obama / biden type in 4 years.
Everyone I know is nihilistic and numb. We know.
uhhh always has been?? google github us atrocities
Kinda on topic, but imma give you some perspective into what it's like to be a liberal leaning person in a deeply red county. Half my friends are independent or republican, all my coworkers and my boss are republicans, and even my dad is straight up MAGA. I've always voted third party because I hated that Democrats never get anything done, but I did vote heavily democrat this past election because I knew how fucked everything would be.
I would say 99% of people do not care or don't think it's a big deal. The ravenous Trump supporters you see on the internet and in videos are more of a minority than the norm. There are definitely some hardcore MAGA here but most everyone is just regular everyday people that are just carrying on like nothing is different. Most of them don't spend much time on the internet and they hardly watch the news. I was talking about the tariff situation to a cashier at a gas station just this morning and it was the first time they were hearing it. And with the news not even covering half the shit that's going on they probably never will. My roommate works downtown and he didn't even know about the protests at the Capitol until I mentioned it to him 3 days later.
I guess my point is that the average person isn't even informed. Not everyone spends a lot of time on the internet so they don't even see what's going on. They decide to vote specifically because the candidate says "Republican" and that's the furthest thought that goes into it. Everyone talks about "this is what they voted for" as if any more thought went into their vote for Romney or McCain than their vote for Trump. And I don't blame them for it because as far as they know, this was just like any other election. They've been bamboozled by local news to think everything is still exactly the same as they slowly pushed the Trump agenda onto them. The hardcore MAGA are definitely fascists in every sense of the word, but these regular everyday people are not fascists. They were just voting for the party they always voted for and were just expecting the same kinda shit from Trump's first term, and the local news didn't tell them anything different.
We understand that fully 1/3 of our population are absolutely bonkers. It's like being in a boat at sea and 1/3 of the passengers are drilling holes in the bottom of the boat. What the rest of the world should know is that no matter how fucked it seems at the moment, it is going to get worse. We are on the precipice of a climate catastrophe. The AMOC is going to grind to a halt, Europe is going to go into a deep freeze, weather patterns globally are going to fall apart and become chaotic. The real problems are in the distance, so you should prepare yourselves.
Midwesterner here. Surveys show Trump's approval rating between 40% and 50%, and here on the ground, I believe it. A lot of people are seriously misled. Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax are considered legitimate news sources, so a lot of people truly believe that Trump is improving things.
It will take decades to deprogram all the people who fell for the alt-right's tricks.
Some of us are. No idea how many. We are separated into news bubbles.
the smart ones are. the cultists are wrapping themselves in
nationalismpatriotism. the rest are just terminally unaware and don't vote.Shithole Country, Failed State. These are understating just how fucked up the US is right now.
The amount of harm Trump has done and will do to this country (in the name of trying to harm the entire rest of the world) is going to last for decades. And when he's done, he's so dumb that he will think he won bigly and his supporters will continue to repeat idiotic statements about how much better off the US is, and most of them will believe it.
This country is fucked.
Those of us who pay attention are very aware. The usual suspects remain ignorant to their reality, as usual.
The 'Mercans are not usually aware that there are other countries besides the two countries, Europe and Africa.
I assume you define patriotism as belief in one's country because no other populated countries actually exist.
In sharp contradiction, most 'Mercans believe that they are Irish, a small town in Delaware.
People know at various levels. You are seeing maga types even recognizing this stuff aint so great for them and repbulicans who go with it to be winning to realize it might not have been a smart move. Then like most of the democratic congress feel they need to make moves with the next election. Then there are the ones with their eyes open who realize he is now clearing house and putting in as many as possible who will heil on command at as high a levels as possible and make sure all the rest are cowed by removing any security their position might have had. We see he is already floating ideas to make new election restrictions and extend his term and has no problem breaking laws and constitutions and court orders and such.
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
The people cheering it on think it's patriotism. Then there still seems to be maybe a third of us who think this was just another election we had in 2024.
The rest of us know, and are appropriately freaked the fuck out.
I went abroad where a lot of Americans were. I ended up fucking one and his wife. That wasn’t important to the rest of the story but I really feel proud of myself for that and can’t brag anywhere else.
Anyways, from the Americans I met, the overall majority of them were not very aware of what goes on in the news. The common sentiment was that they tuned out from all the news after November and still have to show up to their jobs so to them, nothing is really changing. Was eye opening.
We have a 24 hr billionaire backed propaganda news channel that for some weird reason Americans watch the most. The other main stream news is propaganda light. The few truthful news organizations are nowhere near as well funded and they’re being targeted and silenced by trump and musk. All of our major social media platforms have turned far right facist and we have tons of billionaire backed podcasts devoted to radicalizing young men. I think it’s too late for us but the question is will the facist billionaire cancer spread to Canada and Europe. Those of us who are hyper aware of what is going on are deeply worried but also want to get our loved ones through this alive.
Ah, the Greek prime minister visited a wanted war criminal yesterday, Hungary invited said wanted war criminal yesterday and Germanies capital declared the capital of the wanted war criminal as a partner city yesterday.
That was just one day. The EU is also a rogue organization.
Nah, we good.
I am very aware.
Most people I know are either organizing to build community resistance or cowering in their homes.
Polling data shows Trump has a roughly 40% approval rating, which is extremely low for a recently-elected president.
The kind of people who respond to polls and the kind of people who have jobs and lives have little overlap, so you know, the polls are kind of not representative of what people feel.
I think a lot of people are expecting the courts to come down on him and stop the worst of it, because they just can't bear to face the truth.
I come from a white suburban middle class background and from what I can tell the answer is no, atleast among this demographic. The main concern is not the threat of fascism but rather how Trump's policies will affect the economy. Even here there is a certain level of denial. I hear a lot of reassurances that things will bounce back eventually. Most people simply do not get it, especially in the older generations.
yeah but the active constant surveillance keeps us from talking with each other about it in public/privately owned buildings/urban areas/in cars/anywhere a phone is present
basically we have to go on camping trips if we want to actually discuss
I'm aware
I don't know what we are anymore. Other than simply just lost and dumb.
Yes to both halves of the question.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm very aware. I don't know how this ends, but I know it's going to get really bad.
About half the country is completely checked out of politics, most of them probably know Trump's president, but uh, good luck getting accurate answers about anything else, only 47% of Americans can even name the 3 branches of government we have, so I'm being generous here.
The remaining half is split between people who are aware and people cheering it on.
Yes we know, and the general vibe even with magas don't like it.
Yeah we know. Our at least those paying attention do.
Rogue empire