“Nazi mad that people hate nazis”
What you believe in determines if you get demonized? That sounds really nice, let’s swap.
Does Lemmy have a !clevercomebacks or !murderedbywords yet?
these fucking woke left communist socialist liberals telling me it's wrong to be a bigot that's just taking it way too far
The white supremacist violence that took place in Jacksonville this past weekend has me doing some research.
The source of this quote is here, from another incident in Florida:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/attempted-homicide-richard-spencer-speech-gainesville-florida_n_59ea766ae4b0958c468228ffDoes anyone have any ideas how to make improvements in the sorry state of white America? I say this as a white man. All the solutions I conceive are complicated and far fetched — like developing communities based on love and respect not money and subjugation.
I would suggest not starting with the premise that the problem is "White America." These folks don't speak for White people, not even remotely, and buying into that falsehood is exactly what they want.
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will.
I'm not going to say it any better than MLK, so I'll just leave the link here.
White America is the problem. Sure, moderate white Americans are so much less terrible than outright racists, but a complacent majority that is happy to reap the benefits of an unjust system, simply because it is the comfortable path, is one of the major reasons why it's so hard to make movement against those racists.
Require public middle schools to include mandatory courses or seminars about empathy, emotional wellbeing, and basic social skills.
or
Put them with the other white-supremacists on a square of land and let them be an independent territory, on the condition that anyone who wants to leave must be allowed to leave to the US. And point and laugh as they realize only white men would want to live in a society that arbitrarily puts white men at the top.
or
Kindly ask the media to stop using the same 5 "scary SJWs who want to kill all men!!!!" to convince half the country that they are being persecuted by all women and minorities everywhere.
(disclaimer: results may vary.)
Require public middle schools to include mandatory courses or seminars about empathy, emotional wellbeing, and basic social skills.
I'm all for this.
I was sitting in a McDonalds restaurant in the late morning on a weekday in the Midwest USA. There was a group of older white men drinking coffee and having discussions. I wasn't really following their conversation, but one man made one of the stupidest and out-of-touch statements I've heard in months. Its a turn of phrase that sounds like he heard it somewhere else and was parroting it like it was clever. It isn't, of course.
It was this: "We spend so much effort trying not to offend anyone anymore. Why can't we just get back to just offending everyone?"
This man was an older version of the OP; white, cis-gendered male. He's been the recipient of privilege his entire life any may not even be aware of what others go through or think that those that do "deserve it". He doesn't get that "Why can't we just get back to just offending everyone?" was when white males like himself were immune to being criticized in society for their gender and skin color while every group that wasn't white and male was on the receiving end of bigotry and misogyny. Of course he wants to go back to that, where he can insult and belittle others others without any consequences.
I have no idea why these people can step outside of themselves for even a short time to listen to the experiences of others, and put themselves in their place to feel what it would feel like to be on the receiving end, to experience institutional racism and misogyny limiting what they can do in life in our society. I don't know how these old white men, who many claim to be instilled with a strong sense of justice, and see their fellow citizens being treated differently by our society and our justice system.
How can these people possibly become better versions of themselves when their identity is built on the premise that they are intrinsically better than other people just because of their male genitalia and lack of skin pigmentation?
who many claim to be instilled with a strong sense of justice
They think justice is them (and people they like) winning. That's what they believe. Values and morals are justifications for what they do, not reasons to do things.
That's why they will never understand when you try to explain how they are not actually following their values, or heros, or religion. Their main idea is that they are correct and right. It's not a complicated position but it's very human.
If you don't think like that, congratulations. You're a better person. But that doesn't mean you'll be able to convince them that they're wrong.
“We spend so much effort trying not to offend anyone anymore. Why can’t we just get back to just offending everyone?”
I mean, it's obviously wrong to lash out to do the opposite of what people order of you, yet I feel like in minor ways we've all done that to some degree. I also can't think of any close group of friends that hasn't picked out some kind of group that they are okay with disparaging - be it local drivers, voters of a political party, people playing a certain game, etc. If it seems like the goal for happiness is to just forbid any externally focused negativity, it's not hard to see why that doesn't seem appealing. People always have gripes, and want to express them.
You even see this with little kids. They do a thousand mean/bad things parents hate because they want to do things. The biggest tip I think early parents need is to stop leading every sentence with "Don't ____!" - instead try to invent things that they can do that the parents are okay with. "Hey, count how many white cars are on the road." "Hey, can you fill this coloring book using only wrong colors", etc. They just want to figure out a 'space' that they're not going to be shot down for inventiveness.
The key, and maybe this is something those coffee drinkers don't understand and could even plausibly be taught, is to focus any gripes towards thoughts and actions of others, never identities. If you asked extremely bigoted people whether "people in wheelchairs are stupid", I would bet a fair number of them would recoil and tell you to shove off, because even they know no one asks to be in a wheelchair. But it's less clear to them why someone might end up a junkie on drugs, or illegally immigrating, or what multiple reasons there might be for links between arrest rate and skin color.
I have no idea why these people can step outside of themselves for even a short time to listen to the experiences of others
I mean, you may have answered your own question with the "I have no idea" part. If you can't envision an even halfway possible reason for the life they've lead, bringing them to that point they make that statement, you have your own answer how it's hard to put yourself in others' shoes.
At the risk of explaining the joke, you're not far off. Become an organizer at your workplace/apartment complex/community. Creating working class solidarity is the best way to fight against fascism. If you have extra time on your hands, you can volunteer at your local polling place, join a local group of antifascists that infiltrate fascist communities, or lobby government to make changes like making it easier to vote. There's a lot of options, but none of them are particularly easy to accomplish.
It's really hard to found any kind of movement that aims to respect and accept "cis-gendered, white, straight men". Because, factually and in the public eye, those people just generally need less help than various minorities that each get oppressed.
But for any individual person, it's horribly demeaning to come home from a hard day at work not making enough to buy the PlayStation you want, aching for someone to talk to, and all the support groups out there are for "Black Engineers of America", or "Help for Transgenders afraid to come out to their parents". I say that as someone who absolutely respects and values the benefit those groups bring. Keep in mind: People looking in from the outside of those orgs probably also have a hard time seeing or understanding the amount of societal pain people have just by being in those minority groups, before and after those organizations started forming.
The boringly sad way of putting it is, if you are white, cis-gendered, male, and straight, (in short, the "majority"), and you happen to not have a talent that makes you unique, you literally can't finish the sentence "I am PROUD to be ____" without coming across as a bit of a demon in some people's eyes.
My post is longer than it should be for a meme comment, but I do want to end on a positive / plan of action: At the very least, one step is acknowledgment, and that never has to come at the cost of those minority groups - each of whom need their own, often more urgent help. A big one I'd want is to completely shut down the "male negativity" that's kinda formed in media, as a backlashing response to the "women negativity" in terrible old media. We often say we want men to open up and be more emotional, yet it's still played for laughs on TV.
I tried to tag you in my reply below but I'm not sure if I did it right. I wrote TWO long posts underneath @cubedsteaks -- and YOU said your post was longer than it should be! If you don't have time to read my serialized thoughts below, just know that I appreciated your response.
But for any individual person, it’s horribly demeaning to come home from a hard day at work not making enough to buy the PlayStation you want, aching for someone to talk to, and all the support groups out there are for “Black Engineers of America”, or “Help for Transgenders afraid to come out to their parents”. I say that as someone who absolutely respects and values the benefit those groups bring. Keep in mind: People looking in from the outside of those orgs probably also have a hard time seeing or understanding the amount of societal pain people have just by being in those minority groups, before and after those organizations started forming.
What's so crazy about this is even I, as a bisexual woman don't get to go to any support groups cause where I live, if you're not trans and a youth, who cares?? If you're not BIPOC, tough shit.
Hell most people, even other gay people will act like bisexuality isn't real or doesn't count or isn't good enough to warrant any kind of support.
Like even the queer events here are usually just targeted towards trans and BIPOC or aro/ace people. It's like the other parts of LGBTQ+ don't even matter to them.
Does anyone have any ideas how to make improvements in the sorry state of white America?
If you see a nazi punch them in the fucking face.
Or if they identify as a nazi using an easilly removable pin, give them something that can't be taken off.
Fixing something difficult and complex is always harder than breaking it more.
How do we fix white america? I don’t know. But I know that teaching each other that it’s not white vs black, but it’s not racist vs racist and that as white people we’re gonna have to prove which side we’re on regularly. Similar with every other axis of oppression.
I think we also have to remember that the fascists are actively recruiting these boys. Antifascists need to counter that. Idk how, but we need to find out. Antifascism is at its best when it’s like the rainbow coalition. We all understand who the real enemy is: fascists.
Yes. The murderer on Saturday is said to have had a swastika drawn on his gun and a Rhodesian army patch on his clothing. As bad as Florida schools are he didn’t learn to like those things in school. He was groomed, most likely online. The conservative reactions seek to identify the fault as squarely within the individual — although not to the extent that they will support mental health screening prior to gun purchases. In other words, not to any meaningful extent. The only consequence a conservative politician supports is vitriolic tough talk for the cameras.
as white people we’re gonna have to prove which side we’re on regularly
Remember when Muslims were socially pressured to prove they weren't terrorists by condeming the terrorists, following 9/11?
I have no problem with condemning racism, seeing as it is evil, but we should maintain an "innocent until proven guilty" policy.
End stochastic terrorism by de-platforming the alt-right pipeline. These shoots all listen to the same pundits, go to the same messageboards. We can debate them and debunk their theories, which does work somewhat, ultimately I think disrupting these platforms is the answer.
Before that it was John Birch Society spreading out magazines and having meetings in homes like Avon. I do agree the internet, mainstream radio, and TV helped a lot too. Cutting down access to not yet radicalized people I do think would help. People used to think birchers were crazy, even on the right. Up until they basically transformed into the Tea Party. (Funded a lot by Kochs, sons of one of the original Birchers).
says Fears
What's that phenomena called where people tend to favor careers that fit their name? Like a fireman named Les McBurny? This guy gives me the same vibes with a name like that and being so scared of progress and people who are different.
Also if we cried for him, we would be shedding tears for Fears.
Poor guy, she didn’t have to be such a jerk
These chucklefucks seem to always say shit like "lean right" or "moderate conservative" and then go on about Hitler did nothing wrong and Regan is God's gift to man...
Ffs Mr.StrongMan state your position honestly you coward!
I see the same shit on dating apps everyone is either liberal or moderate... I live in a red area, 80% of those "moderates" are 100% on the Trump train and say pretty much that in their profiles... It's some masturbation, big brain feels, to say you're above it all by being "moderate" even though you're 110% Right wing conservative, or just fear...
If anything one common trait of Republicans is cowardice/fear. That's why they need the strong man, it's why they fear the immigrant, it's why they worship the military and police. The world is a big scary place and they need to feel safe so they can't even be honest with themselves and say they're Right wing.
These chucklefucks seem to always say shit like "lean right" or "moderate conservative" and then go on about Hitler did nothing wrong and Regan is God's gift to man...
Pretending to not be far-right is a deliberate strategy. Once upon a time it was "hiding your power level", these days it's probably known as being "mask on".
You've already worked out at least one reason why -- nobody wants to fuck a neo-nazi. So they masquerade as "moderates" to try and get their dicks sucked and seethe whenever women see through it.
Another reason is deplatforming -- nobody wants to listen to a neo-nazi either. What are they possibly going to contribute to a conversation? "The problem is minorities and the solution is to kill them".
Finally, they work hard to try and normalise their beliefs. They want to convince actual moderates that demonising the LGBT community is what good conservatives do. They want to convince children playing games online that it's normal to hurl racist slurs at strangers.
The entire "alt-right" thing was just a way of creating plausible deniability about who they really were and what they really think.
When the "unite the right" rally happened, they were feeling braver than they had in decades. They had a top 50 subreddit. They'd been on television. People weren't spitting on them.
So they triumphantly dropped the act, waved around swastikas, chanted about jews, killed an innocent woman who disagreed with them and readied themselves for their spots of honour in the fourth rieche.
But it never came. Instead, they got fired from their jobs and disowned by their families. People went back to calling them Nazis and spitting in their faces. All their progress was wiped out in an instant.
They learned their lesson; unless you're about to do a mass shooting, never admit what you truly are.
I remember right afterwards when a bunch of them got put on no fly lists and they couldn't work out why.
They genuinely hadn't figured that there would be consequences to their actions. They travelled potentially hundreds of miles to somewhere where they weren't liked, burnt what few bridges they had left, and then got stuck on a no-fly list. I would love to know how some of them got back. I think it would make for an interesting comedy show.
Presumably the KKK thought of themselves as moderate. And of course they tend to fall back when called out to the good old cowardly, "We're only saying what everyone else is thinking", whilst conveniently ignoring what everyone is actually thinking.
Where I live they're just calling themselves "centrists" which is just code for "i'm secret repub cause i know if i tell people i'm repub they will shun me"
How did i end up in the dumbest of the world ending scenario timelines :(
If it makes you feel any better, we're probably not in the dumbest one.
*yet
This feels like a parody. I don’t even know if it’s real or not anymore.
Maybe I'm in the wrong reality. I don't remember this much irony when I was a kid.
I want to get off Mr Bones' Wild Ride
I want to get off Mr Bones’ Wild Ride
Some Aylo intern scribbling down Mr. Boner's Wild Ride.
Can't believe that's not an Onion article.
This is why the onion is struggling, how to you satire the new when the news feels like satire.
Image Transcription:
A snippet from a HuffPost article reading:
'"Basically, I'm just fed up with the fact that I'm cis-gendered, I'm a white male, and I lean right, towards the Republican side," said Fears, 28, wearing a pin of the 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf of the Waffen-SS. "And I get demonized if I don't accept certain things."'
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
Accept certain things like "Jewish people are people"?
ITT: White fragility.
It's the South Park timeline
"I'm sick of being a Caucasian! I'm not any kind of ASIAN! IM WHITE!"
it sounds like he's sick of being male 🤫
