dear republicans, what's the point of alienating every single ally of the US?
dear republicans, what's the point of alienating every single ally of the US?
it's like you believe you can tariff them expecting they won't do the same. Why do you believe the rest of the world is not going to retaliate and why do you believe America can prosper without the rest of the world?
What's the point of having a military alliance with countries you puts tariffs on? That's unfriendly to say the least.
The point?
I see it like this.
Profit profit profit at the expensive of all Americans for 4 years.
The next 4 years let Democrats clean up the mess, Democrats are weak anyway.
Then milk the American people again for another 4 years. The cycle is nonstop.
This is malicious greed but everyone keeps thinking these people are idiots.
Not a Republican but big US billionaires recently cashed out their stocks.
https://finbold.com/warren-buffetts-cash-pile-hits-334-billion-record-high-what-does-it-mean/
Trump imposing moronic tariffs will crash the market and the Billionaires can buy back cheap.
Stock market manipulation. Look at who moved in to make big trades after the market plunged. Follow the money.
Trump only ran to stay out of prison. Now he's ripping the copper out of the walls to get as much money as he can before it all collapses under his ineptitude.
Elon thinks he's gonna be a trillionaire at the top of a technofeudal oligarchy. (He wants to be Arasaka from Cyberpunk but he's gonna have a hard time doing that while all his businesses fail.)
I haven’t seen any republicans here so I’ll also offer my opinion as a sane person ….
- Narcissism. There is only me, and other. There are no allies, just suckers. it’s all about me. Right here. Right now.
- Bullying. Trump styles himself as a great negotiator but from the outside it looks a lot more like bullying. And if you believe his commitments, you’re a sucker. He thinks this is “making deals” but is the only way he knows how to operate
fascism must always create more outsiders, must always create more enemies to keep control, to keep things directed.
remember, fascism appropriates genuine upset and the fact that to the privileged, equality feels like persecution. it steers itself by creating enemies to hate. remember: people's lives are genuinely fucking miserable. there is dystopian shit happening. and all of that is really complicated, and if people stopped to think about it for five minutes, they would pull a 1789.
so they just keep adding more enemies, and more derangements like what the qanons call 'baking' but hitler just said was the way everyone should read books, until they live in a totally unhinged fantasy world, and any method of social control must engage with the fantasy.
tl;dr: sacrificing external allies to fuel a persecution complex, keep control, entrench the madness, keep attention off the american elites that were at least rhetorically some of the initial targets.
thier ally is PUTIN, thats all they need. ive seen them shill hard for putin, one asians youtubers acc, have been shilling for rich white people and russia see the common thing, before they went full maga.
Easy answer. The entire Government of Putin is working for shit Kremlin.
Isolating the US and breaking US hegemony. Trump is a Putin puppet, and what’s best for Russia is crippling the US economically and diplomatically. Alienating the EU cuts off the EU from the US who would otherwise help the Europeans against the Russians as they try to reclaim their former territories.
This also helps China who is trying to replace the US as the world superpower. BRICS is doing a good job of creating a competing economic alliance, and the US falling apart helps make it more attractive.
Not a conservative, by the way. Just someone who follows the news.
I'm not a Republican, but I'll bite.
The U.S. is kinda in a bad spot right now. Not just politically but economically as well. Our National Debt is the highest it's ever been. While I'm 100% for taxing Billionaires and their Trillion dollars companies more, by like, a lot, the Billionaires of course don't want that. So they're trying to cut what they can and wheel and deal. Why support Climate Change (French EU thing, I don't remember) acts when you can [pocket the money] use that to pay down debt? The War in Ukraine has unfortunately been drawn out too long for us to stay financially invested in it. Our allies across the sea won't be able to help our country balance our debt when they have Ukraine to worry about as well. So they've decided to put pressure on every external source of revenue while cutting what they can without getting lynched.
Let's talk about Canada and Mexico, but first, a bit of H I S T O R Y. Back in the 90s or 00s the Clinton Administration implemented NAFTA. The agreement sounded good on paper: Strength our border countries. Lifts us all up by giving all the countries jobs, more opportunity, more demand. While outsourcing our manual labor we can focus on the future: Technology! Hindsight is 20/20 though. Why not move our business to a country where we pay lower wages and will end up with higher profits for future investments (like yachts)? Why not get cheaper parts instead of paying the U.S. prices? A ton of manual labor jobs were lost, and many cities (car manufacturing cities, steel cities, etc.) simply never recovered. NAFTA stayed in place more or less until Trump Trumped it into the USMCA in 2020. That gets renegotiated in 2026 with all 3 countries either coming to an agreement or dissolving the agreement.
From all accounts, NAFTA certainly seemed harmful to the American industry at the time, but can that industry recover, and should it? Personally, I don't think so, but they seem to think so. So, from my point of view, the reason they're alienating allies is to extort them for money to help pay down the National Debt and hopefully grow back American industries lost over 2 decades ago.
I'm not a conservative but there's a logic to it beyond this, "because Putin!" circlejerk nonsense. Tariffs are a reaction against Neoliberalism and the economic intelligencia that has fucked everyone over. Many of them blame NAFTA and the offshoring of union jobs to other countries with cheaper labor and fewer protections, and they think they can bring them back through tariffs.
Many of these people understand well that they have been fucked, but can't really name capitalism directly because it's a sacred cow. Still they're going to react poorly to "the establishment" telling them they're dumb and wrong, and that includes libs screaming at them that they're "serving Putin" without even understanding what they're actually trying to do.
Tariffs aren't going to bring those jobs back, at least not without significant subsidies that the government will never do. Also, for the record, those jobs have raised the living conditions of the people they went to, and are one of the reasons China was able to lift 800 million people out of extreme poverty in the past 40 years, but the pitch of, "You might not be able to find a decent job, but hey, at least a poor Chinese rice farmer can afford a washing machine now," doesn't exactly go over well with the right. We should be focusing on the super-rich who have enough hoarded wealth to make everyone rich, regardless of national borders and whatnot, but they see that as communism, because it is communism.
Ultimately, tariffs are a way of rebelling against an economic orthodoxy that isn't working for a growing number of people and they fit into the nationalist narratives about why things are so bad (because of foreigners) without having to name capitalism itself as the problem.
This follows a long historical trend in America where people don't want the government to do anything ever but also need the government to do things to address crises and allow society to function so we have to come up with convoluted approaches that "don't count" as government interference, for whatever reason. For example, the New Deal was too restrained to actually end the Depression, but once WWII happened we could take the gloves off with government spending (on the military) which was economically necessary, and since then, military bases have served as an inefficient and corrupt way for the government to infuse cash into local communities by paying people to just walk around with guns in like Nebraska. This goes all the way back to people like Jefferson, who absolutely hated the idea of big government but also casually doubled the size of the country with the Louisiana Purchase. There's also the classic psychology of, "Keep your damn, government hands off my social security!" A big reason American politics are insane is because there is a battle in everyone's mind between ideology and material interests, and the way in which material interests are persued is roundabout, convoluted, and ineffective, because everyone's trying to avoid being/sounding like a communist.
I was just watching a panel discussion about Trump and the tariffs and had a thought. He's started adding exemptions. He just added one for the automotive industry following discussions with the big three auto makers. What if the tariffs were a grift all along? What if he put the tariffs on to generate tax dollars that he can use to give billions of dollars to the wealthy but what if he's double dipping and selling exemptions? Like, what if when he talked to the big three auto makers he said, "I'll make an exemption to the tariffs for the auto industry if you give me $100 million"?
You're never going to get a satisfying answer to this question, because there is no actual reason. If you want, you can go peek in on the conservative subreddits and watch their gold-medal winning mental gymnastics, but the reason Trump is doing this is Putin told him to. The U.S. is destroying themselves for no gain.
The answer is disappointingly simple: emotional satisfaction.
For decades, these people have been told that they are incredibly generous towards their allies, and that they get nothing in return. That their allies are abusing their relationships. Of course this is false, but they've been told so every day.
Now they get to abuse their "abusers" right back.
I think they would say something like “our allies have been getting more from their alliances with us than we have been getting from those alliances, and we’re tired of being the donor in all these relationships.”
Of course, they are ignoring the fact that our alliances add up to American world domination, which has uniquely tremendous economic benefits for the US. They take that for granted though, feel entitled to it, don’t want to pay for it anymore because they don’t think it can ever change.
It’s just like their attitude on vaccines. They take herd immunity utterly for granted now and only see the minute risks of getting the shot themselves.
If they were capable of thinking critically, they wouldn’t be Republicans in the first place.
Maybe they're trying to smash global imperialism by disassociating from some of the worst colonizers in history? \s
Good luck finding many of them around here. They find out pretty quickly that they aren't welcome.
because there's a war coming soon that will destroy most global trade. trump wants the US in a better position in that near future by having more factories and such inside of the US.
in a peaceful world, you allow free trade and specialization to do its thing and everybody gets richer. you farm bananas, i farm apples, and we trade. we create value out of thin air, it's an amazing thing.
but in a world where superpowers are at war and the world splinters into factions, half of the global economy will be cut off from the other half. therefore it'll be a huge liability if we for example depend on Taiwan for 90% of our computer chips when China can blockade Taiwan and we cannot reliably break that blockade. that's one industry.. now imagine the thousands of other products we need for a modern economy. it would cause massive economic shockwaves.
so this tariff thing is accepting that this will happen in the near future and preparing for it, slowly weaning off the economy from that connection to the rest of the world. so when it does come, it doesn't hurt as bad.
it doesn't really matter if you piss off your allies. since you're the biggest military power they are going to have to rely on you anyway. you have leverage over them. the difference is that Trump is a reality TV star and so he is loudly exploiting this leverage whereas most past leaders would be more subtle and diplomatic about it.
Canada, Mexico, Germany, Japan, etc aren't really allies. Being someone's ally implies there's a sort of equal footing. When someone has no choice but to bend to your will, is that a voluntary relationship? the US essentially wrote Japan's constitution and they told the Germans what to write down for theirs. Canada and Mexico are heavily dependent on US trade- US growth might slow a half percent or two whereas Mexico and Canada are liable to fall into a recession because of these tariffs.
it isn't equal footing. it's a david v goliath situation
to give a recent example, Ukraine. Ukraine in 2014 had the Euromaidan coup and the president had to flee the country. The new government that was quickly appointed without an election realized one thing very quickly- Russia was about to invade them. they had only one option in terms of getting military aid and that was the US. so immediately, the same day that the government was appointed, they started cooperating with the US. a few days after that, little green men showed up in Donbas and the Russian army waltzed into Crimea
so you can say they "allied" with the US but a more honest way to say it is that they were desperately pushed into America's orbit. and the US ultimately doesn't care about a country like Ukraine. people are starting to see it more clearly today because of Trump, but I honestly don't think the situation would have been meaningfully different with Biden or Kamala. The primary difference would have been rhetoric. Instead of calling Zelensky a dictator, we would have just dragged our feet with military aid instead, like what has been happening the last year or so
tldr: the US is a imperialist superpower and this is what they do.
I agree completely with the cash out scenarios listed. In the end it's all money and power, only the means and details change.
If you're asking the lay republican, you're going to get the propaganda. It's going to be that we've given all these people free rides too long. Money, Military Support and Health support and things are too bad here, we need all that money here to
help our own peoplestuff the billionaires pockets.Realistically, they are trying to A: stuff their own pockets and buy up everything they can. B: force us into an unopposable dictatorship Krasnov is owned. You remember right when he got into office, we saw some russian warplanes toying with us, that was his keeper pulling his strings. We're owned at the moment and the one that owns us is making sure the oligarchs get enough keys to satisfy A and B.
They don't care about cooperation, everything is a deal to them. If some other country has something, we don't. The entire worldview of Republicans is just capitalism, if something can't be framed in terms of profit it's not worth pursuing.
They're fucking Ferengis
Edit: as others have correctly pointed out, at least Ferengis have standards. This might be a disservice to them.
The answer is: they do not give a shit.
They do not care about the US as a country.
They do not care about the Americans as a people.
They do not care about the economy.
They do not care about anything apart from their own personal interest. Lining their own pockets is all they care about. If someone helps them do that, they are friends with them. If they don't, they do not matter.
Congratulations, you now officially live in a cleptocracy where they shake you down, take all of your money and give it to the guys who already have billions. All the taxes they claim to save by obliterating social security, affordable care etc? They are not going back to you, they will stuff them in Musk's pockets through bullshit contracts and other schemes.
And at the same time, they are critically crippling the IRS to make sure the billionairs no longer even have to pretend to pay taxes.
They need the talking heads on Fox News to tell them how to answer that question first.
Going to steel man this since theres obviously no one on here answering this question seriously. Not a republican and don't agree with all this, just imagining what my republican dad would say about this:
For ukraine and Europe, we have no interest in protecting them besides sentimental attachments. Ukraine is not our problem, it's Europe's and if they want to dump money into a lost cause by all means go ahead, but leave the u.s. out of it unless your going to compensate us for it. The u.s. isn't threatened by Russia, we have an ocean, the world's largest navy and nukes to protect us. The larger threat is China and we should be focusing on them, not russia which can barely invade it's neighbor, much less march across Europe and the atlantic. Europe can handle its own problems.
For Canada and Mexico and tarriffs in general. We need to bring manufacturing back to America and revitalize the rust belt. We can't do that if companies find it more profitable to go over seas and pay people pennies when they'd have to pay Americans much more. The only way to get them to come back is to make it too expensive to import things.
This is all about putting America first. For decades America has been spending billions to protect Europe and has been sending billions of dollars over seas to build factories owhile factory after factory closes here in the u.s. We need to stop all of that and spend our money in America for Americans.
Feel free to use this comment as a punching bag, I don't care, just trying to give OP an actual answer if this was a legitimate question and not some rhetorical question seeking affirmation on how dumb the Republicans are. They are, don't get me wrong, but just say so and don't dress it up in questions like this.
Its simple, russian wants them to and they must do what putin says or else.
Its not really that complicated. It's simply trason.
Honestly asking: what other way would anyone suggest to bring back outsourced manufacturing jobs?
I’ve always heard broad public support on both sides of the aisle for bringing back those jobs. Wasn’t that always going to make things more expensive?
ETA: the downvotes lead me to believe a lot of y’all are caught up in the nationalism of the arguments, and refuse to consider the logistics of what you want. That goes for both Red MAGA wanting recklessly applied tariffs, and Blue MAGA wanting to start WW3 without any existing domestic production. Neither of you are thinking shit through.
It pleases Putin.
It's the most obvious powerplay in my memory. Isolate and remove America on the world stage from the inside. And it's being highly successful. You couldn't get a better Russian agent then trump.
The president is a Russian asset
Simple bully logic. If you are bigger than someone else, simply hit and threaten them to get whatever you want. Works really well until all the victims gang up and fight back together.
The Sassanians alienated their Lakhmid allies -forcefully annexed them and slaughtered their ruling dynasty-. Everyone knows what happened to the Sassanians not too long afterwards.
Who knows if history will repeat itself but worth waiting and finding out.
Edit: not sure why this is getting downvoted. I gave an example of an empire which at the height of its military might went through a period of political instability which lead to it turning against one of its major allies which eventually brought its downfall. The parallels are obvious, but whether we will get a repeat of the outcome or not, is yet to be seen. The replies are as-if the Sassanians are a little unknown empire at the edge of the world rather than one that was at one point an equal to Rome.
Isolationism and tribalism.
Make your people believe the rest of the world are against them and they'll look to you for leadership. It's not just the US - Europe and the UK have also had a rise in jingoism, fuelled by inflated reports of immigrants.
To create the enemy without.
The question isn't stupid. But asking it here is
Is this question rhetorical? The people you’re addressing this question to aren’t on Lemmy. Try Fox News, lies social, or wherever other sewers the maggots live in.
They are extremely low trust and simply can't believe they're not getting fucked by everyone else secretly
Do you think there are many republicans on this site?
I imagine it's so no one would be willing to come to our aid as he destroys the country.
You would likely get an answer akin to “they aren’t our allies, they’ve been exploiting us and now that the bill is due they are flaking”
There’s a good discussion on The Ezra Klein Show from March 1 The Dark Heart of Trump’s Foreign Policy [Apple Podcasts link]
I'm not a republican, but from my perspective the US empire has been a force for evil in the world for almost all of its existence. International free trade elevates the power of corporations above countries (ex. international IP law enforcement). The neoliberal status quo sucks, and even if tariffs and pressuring US allies to build up their own militaries and not rely on us are being done for the wrong reasons and not in the right way, they still act to dismantle it. I can see it being better than the alternative in the long run, at least for the world if not for those of us living in the US.