8mo ago

Europe will not be part of Ukraine-Russia peace talks, US envoy says

www.theguardian.com

Starmer to join Macron-led European crisis summit on Trump’s Ukraine plan

Europe will be consulted – but ultimately excluded – from the planned peace talks between Russia, the US and Ukraine, Donald Trump’s special envoy for Ukraine has revealed.

Asked if Europe would be present at the planned talks, Keith Kellogg said he was from “the school of realism, and that is not going to happen”.

19 comments

This link aged like milk, the guy already backtracked and the article changed
- I did not think I linked a live article. The content of the article changed quite a lot. Very strange.
  Unrelated side note: what is "The Observer"? I have not noticed it before. some new think tank?
  
  Yeah I'm not blaming you. Just following the topic elsewhere and noticed links posted to lemmy being behind
  
  The Observer is The Guardian's Sunday paper
- this I hadn't known..
  thanks for telling us, here!
  _ /\ _
Of course not. They plan on giving away the store, and you can't do that with the pesky shop keeps there.
Ukraine is in Europe. The US isnt - they can get fucked.
- Trump apparently doesn't let Ukraina have any say in the negotiations, only a take-it-or-leave-it between Trump's determined "settlement" or continued-war, possibly with Trump backing Russia, as the alternative..
  EU cannot make Trump play by "the rules".
  As some have, through the years, pointed-out: when some guy with a gun, who seems to be spazzing on drugs, accosts you & demands you cooperate with him..
  the rules are quite different from the normal-social-rules..
  Trump's going to be in power until the US is completely-destroyed, in Civil War Part2 ( which should begin -/+ 1y of the won't-be-allowed-to-remove-Trump 2028 election, so there should be nothing-left of usable US of A by .. 2032? ).
  Same as with Assad: either he is king/lord, XOR there's nothing-left-for-anybody.
  & he's got the whole machinery, CIA, NSA, military, everything, backing him,
  & with all the civil-rights-loyal people quitting as quickly as they can, in protest, so that his authority becomes as unfettered as can be, as quickly as possible..
  ( anti-strategy, but natural, of course )
  What he actually-can-do, isn't what the "rule books" allow..
  _ /\ _
When the "peace talks" consist of Trump getting orders from his owner Putin, neither Ukraine nor Europe will be involved.
- They also won't result in anything other than US disengagement. Ukraine won't surrender just because Trump says so. And neither will Poland and the Baltic states, and because of that the EU as a whole won't.
  It won't even end the war. It'll just make America look weak.
- Trump used to be Putin's apprentice, now he has enough assumed-power that he can boss Putin around, even with whatever it is that Putin's got on him.
  The relationship is reversing, if not already-reversed.
  Trump's spoken admiration of Putin's openly murdering anyone who gets in his way is still not-yet-tested, in the US, but it is going to be, within 5y.
  https://www.vice.com/en/article/trump-lawyer-says-assassinating-rivals-might-not-be-a-prosecutable-crime/
  ( there won't be any 2028 election, which would be to remove Trump, so US Civil War Part2 begins -/+ 1y of 2028, roughly.
  as Catholics say: "dog in the manger-ism": if he can't possess the US of A, exclusively, then NOBODY can, & he'll make-certain that, like Assad, there's simply nothing-left of it, when he can't )
  Voters had their chance, & they decided they weren't responsible, so, .. they won't have the right-to-vote in the future.
  Trump did promise his followers that they wouldn't have to vote, anymore..
  Trump's rising, Putin's becoming helpless, as Trump & China own/control more & more & more in-spite-of Putin's dwindling power, it seems..
  China wants Russia to be just a decorative cloth glove on CCP's fist, or a vassal-state.
  Modi, in India, bet the farm on Russia's protecting India from China..
  both got played, & lost.
  Exactly as Russia spending money on North Korean troops who haven't even got the competence to avoid being out in the open ( & therefore they keep just getting shot ) was another surprise for Russia..
  I think it was China who put Putin up to the televised/advertised teleconference-between-China-&-Russia when Trump's inaugeration was going-on: that was a slap-in-the-face to Trump, putting Putin down.. which was to China's advantage..
  Russia may be only a puppet-nation, now, for Trump & China, with a few more months of work..
  ( think of how it would be to China's advantage to have "Russia" butchering-up Eastern Europe, taking the blame, weakening NATO, etc, so that when the real push-comes-to-shove, all that has been settled in BRICS's favor, with Russia bearing the blame, NOT China.. disposable puppet-nations are useful, in the game of geopolitics )
  _ /\ _
Can the US and Russia leave Europe the fuck alone for five minutes?
“the school of realism,…”
If Americans had gone to school or even let the message in a super hero movie reach them they’d see that they are Nazis. 400 million Nazis.
- Sorry, but the ideological-split in the US is such that no-more-than 2/3 of the US could be siding with Nazis.
  No matter how convenient, it isn't wise karma to be oversimplifying & labeling everybody-in-a-country as being on 1 ideological side.
  Same with Israel, where the good people are finding they cannot speak truth openly, & live in fear..
  Same with the US..
  Same with all countries which go that route.
  In WW2 there were Germans, in Germany, who worked to dismantle/end Nazi rule, for Germany, & they were loyal to their values. 1 book on that is named, iirc, "An Honorable Defeat".
  Ignoring actual-diversity, for ideological oversimplification, makes one into part-of-the-same-problem, objectively..
  non-thinking, only reacting, just like Nazis..
  Whatever: I don't expect more than 100 million or 150 million to survive US Civil War Part2's completion, maybe that's waaay too optimistic, but given that about 2/3 of the US's voters are good with male-supremacism & white-supremacism, it's going to be the most huge & vicious civil war this planet's seen in awhile, with more guns in it than any previous one ( nearly-all owned by the Trump-side of it, too )..
  maybe I shouldn't expect more than 50 million to survive it..
  going to be a very-bad next-decade, on this continent..
  .. sigh ..
  _ /\ _
  
  Sorry, but the ideological-split in the US
That implies how relevant the voice of Europe in any decision making is. How it's treated by the US.
Russians are always going on about how they are Europeans...
Anyway, let's see.
- Not anymore, since 3 years ago. Moreover, the asian part of Russia is way larger than the european one.
  
  In land area sure. In people, most live toward the western part.

19 comments