Time to get serious with E2E encrypted messaging

Telegram is the worst kind of "secure" messaging in that it gives you a false sense of security while not really being secure.

The biggest issue with Matrix is that the server collects ALL the metadata. If that's your server, that's fine. If thats the default matrix.org server that almost everyone uses, you might as well be using WhatsApp. Same thing goes if any of those people are conversing with people on your server, as they will store all redundant metadata on their server as well.

Signal is easier to use, more private, and faster.

I currently use Telegram for my friends and family

Telegram is probably the worst thing you could use, it doesn't encrypt messages by default and they are stored on Telegram's servers, so they can read them at any time.

I'm also on Element/Matrix. Before I try to get my contacts to join me on there, should I be aware of any privacy issues

Yes, Matrix leaks a bunch of metadata and doesn't have post-quantum encryption.

The best option is to use Signal. It uses end-to-end encryption by default for everything: Normal chats, group chats, voice and video calls and even stories. Messages are only stored on their servers (in encrypted format, so they can't access them) until you receive them, after which they are promptly deleted and only stored on your device. And Signal has much better metadata protection than Matrix. The UX is also much better and less confusing, making onboarding new users much easier.

I’ve honestly found signal better than matrix.

Matrix is just not there yet in terms of features UI etc and is less private than signal because it collects way more metadata and stuff. I know the idea of federation is cool, but Signal works better for the privacy aspect.

telegram is not encrypted e2e

Matrix is good for private general messaging. The fact that it's decentralised means it can also withstand things like government-ordered shutdowns or back doors, since there is no central point that controls the whole network.

Two things to be aware of:

• Some non-message bits (e.g. room topic text and membership) have not yet been moved to the encrypted channel, so those could be read by the administrator of a homeserver that participates in your chat room. Since most people care primarily about keeping the message content private, this is an acceptable trade-off to get all the things that Matrix offers.
• The upcoming Matrix 2.0 features and design choices simplify the UI and fix some occasional errors. It might be worth waiting until this stuff officially lands in the client apps before bringing your contacts to Matrix, for a better experience all around.

I currently use Telegram for my friends and family, but have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the UK Government is either reaching agreement for backdoors with messaging services, or is trying its hardest to.

Unless you start an encrypted chat, Telegram chats are not E2E.

I’m also on Element/Matrix. Before I try to get my contacts to join me on there, should I be aware of any privacy issues or is that a good place to head?

Host your own Matrix node, and then you don't have to worry about prying eyes. Realistically, instead of worrying about the protocol, worry about the content of the text. Use PGP to encrypt your own text and send it over clearnet. Who cares at that point.

No proprietary software can truley provide secure messaging

I think at this point it would be funnier to just use something obviously unsecure like discord but share your public key with the other user and then send encrypted text.

You may want SimpleX. You can still self-host your own server if you wish, but it doesn't have nearly the metadata issues of matrix and encryption keys are stored in a database that you back up instead of constantly breaking

The most privacy focused messaging app I know is SimpleX Chat, it has no user IDs, is FOSS, e2e encrypted with an option to use TOR, give it a try!

hello beautiful people of lemmy I'm excited to make my first comment in here

so I wanted to ask: considering that WhatsApp is a big threat to privacy and even worse because of google and iOS backups, how big of an improvement would it be not using it and using the secret chat option in telegram instead? That would solve the issue wouldn't it? As far as I know the concern is with normal non encrypted conversations and the groups channels and all those.

I would love to use signal with everyone but where I live it seems that there is 0 worries about the topic so I only use it with my more "international" people. The most I can get is probably to use telegram E2EE.

The two encrypted messaging platforms I currently suggest are XMPP or Matrix. Both are usually fine and are decentralized. The main thing with them is to either self-host or choose a server you trust to set up an account — which applies to the Fediverse in general.

My response to the body of this post is https://www.privacyguides.org/en/real-time-communication/

This might address the URL of this post (I've never interacted with "iCloud" so I don't necessarily know what would be a good replacement for it): https://www.privacyguides.org/en/document-collaboration/

There’s also Wire

E2EE and can be used as desktop or phone app interchangeably. No phone number required for signup.

Family has been using this for years now