Since Andy Yen's unfortunate comments, have any of you left Proton? And if so, what alternative did you choose?
Since Andy Yen's unfortunate comments, have any of you left Proton? And if so, what alternative did you choose?
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/25445621
How did the transition go? Do you like the new service(s) so far?
I was looking into proton as an alternative to Google. I am no longer looking at them because of Andy's comments and doubling down. I feel like I'm giving enough companies with questionable ethics my information and money without giving it to them too. If the company wants to come to a consensus about making a public statement that separates them from his comments I'll consider those when they happen.
Yes, I canceled my Ultimate account. Andy can believe whatever he wants in private, but publicly stepping outside of non-partisan policy advocacy at this exact moment in time was a red flag, doubly so because he espoused his personal politics through an official business account in his response to the Reddit thread.
Email/calendar went to Tuta, AirVPN for VPN, BitWarden for passwords. Everything is encouragingly smooth so far.
Fair warning: Tuta's email import is very new and only available on the more expensive tier at the moment (not sure if that's permanent). I didn't have any problems, but there were some issues a few weeks ago.
I do think people are over-reacting to Andy's words and assigning him political views he didn't express. He didn't endorse Trump or the Republican party at large, and definitely didn't "go full MAGA" or express Nazi sympathies. His statements about Democrats I partially agree with and partially disagree. His remarks about the priorities and actions of Republicans, though, were pure tailpipe-huffing fantasy. Being able to say these absurd things in public--under an official business account no less--shows poor judgement and implies he might believe other absurd things he isn't willing to say publicly.
Another factor in my decision: Proton's privacy policy specifies they can modify the policy at any time with no notification to users, and deems continued use of the services as agreement to the updated terms. The updated terms they didn't notify you about.
That being said, no service provider is perfect. I don't think Proton stores enough data to really be a concern if they turned over everything they have. But this whole thing is based on trust. Even with their clients being open-source software, you're trusting that they always serve the same browser scripts that they published. You trust that the password you provide at key generation or login isn't ever passed back to their servers. You trust that they don't keep unencrypted copies of your emails, files, or VPN activity. You trust that they aren't going to modify their privacy policy and quietly undo protections you thought you had.
The way Andy responded was enough to question my trust in the company with him at the helm. I didn't leave as a heavy rebuke, just as a "do better". There are plenty of other companies which provide equivalent services. That's the risk companies take when a major part of their market is ideological people: if you chafe their ideology they're more likely to put the effort into leaving.
I am currently still using their stuff since my husband and I just purchased a longer subscription as a bulk purchase, but we will not be renewing and I am actively researching alternatives for the VPN and emails.
The emails is the more difficult part for me, because everyone suggests hosting your own on your own domain, but to me that just seems like a great way to have any site you tie your email to to be directly linked to your house. Unless I am massively misunderstanding how that would work, in which case any resources would be greatly appreciated.
honesty seems like a overreaction, if proton's goals and actions don't change I'm fine with staying (even if I disagree with trump). it's one person on the board not the entire company as well. however I have considered leaving proton due to bad linux support and no de-googled notifications. afaia proton is the cheapest for what I use it for (vpn+mail+email aliasing+drive (barely using it due to no Linux client)), please tell me if I'm wrong. protonvpn has port fowarding support which I use to host servers sometimes.
I am still with proton since the owners being pricks doesn't change the reasons why I like them for my email: They have made it clear what they will and won't give to authorities and I can act accordingly.
That said, I did look into going mullivad+tuta but decided against it. Since tuta requires you to use their desktop client if you want an "offline" copy of their emails and that just seems like a mess when they inevitably do something shitty and I need to wait for "support" to get back to me for why I can't download my emails and go elsewhere. Whereas I can just keep the bridge running and open thunderbird every week or two with proton.
I downgraded from the Ultimate plan because I don't really need the VPN. It hasn't exactly achieved much because now I just have additional credit on my account.
If the CEO hasn't been replaced by the time my annual subscription comes up for renewal I'll migrate elsewhere. It's a pain because their email and calendar are half decent but I'm really not impressed with the company's failure to take responsibility.
No, I literally just moved to proton like 3 months prior to the comments and still in the process of moving my less used services to the new email from my Gmail. Not really willing to do it all again so soon. Maybe if something else happens which is more serious, but a single event is a bit much to make such a large decision in my opinion. If it's systemic and continues to happen then yes I will think about moving.
I've switched from Proton Drive and Calendar to Nextcloud, which is an upgrade.
I've switched from Proton Pass to Vaultwarden, which works just as well for me.
I've switched from Standard Notes to Memos, which has also been an improvement for me considering my notes needs are pretty basic and Memos fits perfectly.
That leaves Mail, Simple Login, and VPN. I have alternatives lined up with Tuta, addy.io, and Mullvad, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I would be paying more than I am now with Proton (2 year plan) and it would be a massive pain to switch email providers.
I'm considering staying with Proton for only those services, but on thin ice. If they fuck up again, I'm absolutely out.
I may end up switching anyway however. This situation has left a bad taste in my mouth, and if I have the motivation and time to deal with migrating one day in the near future, I might just do it regardless. We'll see.
I pulled the trigger and decided to leave. Not only because of the recent actions from Proton, but when I started looking for alternatives I quickly realized how deeply integrated I was into their eco system and how difficult it was to make the switch. That's personally not something I like. I guess this goes back to the saying, 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket'.
I'm now a happy customer of:
- Mullvad for VPN
- Bitwarden as password manager
- Fastmail for email
- Ente for photos
- Yet to decide on cloud storage for files.
I know fastmail isn't the perfect privacy option but works very well for me. They own all their own hardware and use encryption at rest. They help develop open standards such as Jmap to replace imap. . This, to me says a lot about the people behind the company and is something I appreciate.
For those looking for a more private email solution then Tuta is a great option too!
Best of luck out there folks 👍
No. I'm tired of making my life inconvenient the moment someone says something stupid.
i was using both proton and tuta, now i privilege tuta.
I moved many people from google to proton, from now on people i convince will move to tuta.
you don't move in a week, you decide to move and start modifying your @ on all the sites and offices that contact you through that address. One day, you realize that it's been months since you last needed your older address and you delete.
Cancelled auto-renew. I have a year and half to find alternatives. I'll not support this company anymore.
I honestly wasn't going to switch, but him being backed up by the official account was iffy. Even still, I wasn't necessarily making moves to switch. But I tried to use a new card to pay for my Proton subscription, and it wouldn't verify. I eventually had to make a Paypal just to pay my bill and avoid losing access to my account. So I kinda decided, "fuck it, they can't be that shitty of a company and get my money still."
I was kinda planning to switch, just not urgently. But now, I hope to be fully moved over to Tuta Mail in the next few weeks.
Personally I switched off of VPN to mullvad at least, and am looking into self hosting bitwarden and using tuta (and now addy.io too thanks to a comment here). Honestly I'd been considering switching for a bit anyway just to be less reliant on a single service for everything, so this kinda validated that since even if this specifically isn't a dealbreaker something else could definitely end up as one. Even if I don't fully move off of proton because moving emails is so annoying, it will still be nice to at least have some other options set up.
I left and canceled my plan. No alternative yet as I was migrating from Google.
I also left my plan, even refunded the amount, since my renewal was set on January 1st.
Main reason I used Proton was their VPN, especially their wide range of servers and countries helped me. But now I don't need that many individual country servers anymore, so I settled to Mullvad, mainly because their prices are very competitive and they are considered "trusted" (even though I kinda miss port forwarding, I'd rather not have it, than trust in AirVPN or other smaller services).
I used their mail for a little while, so migration was rather simple. I currently test out Posteo, when I am happy with them, I might stick to them.
Same with Drive, I didn't use them, mainly because they do not have proper Linux support (no, rclone isn't sufficient).
Thankfully I didn't use them as my password manager (and definitely not as a crypto wallet service) :D
For email, I landed on Tuta as being the closest in feature parity and signed up for the €3/mo plan. Been pretty happy so far and was pleasantly surprised to see both the email and calendar apps were available on F-Droid. Personal bonus for me was they also run on renewable energy.
So far the only con I've found was lack of support for +aliases (e.g. name+alias@tuta.com) but the 15 additional email addresses help to offset that.
I canceled the night of and moved to a combination of Mailbox and Tuta (trying to diversify a little). I also provided a colorful reason for terminating to make sure they knew exactly why.
So far they each have their quirks, but overall I like them. I also set up two domains for email so that the next switch won't be as jarring (since I can just keep using the domain addresses).
I already used Mullvad for VPN, so that was a non-issue.
I'm grandfathered in to the old pricing for Proton Unlimited. I ain't cancelling until they pry the service from my cold, dead hands.
No, I've not switched. While I disagree with his comments, that does not make me switch.
I am fine with using services provided by companies whose employees or leaders I don't 100% agree with all the time.
I’m working on getting off it, planning to self host. It’s unfortunate, because I was all in and working to degoogle, so it’s all a mess right now
I'm backing stuff up and waiting to see how this plays out until March before deciding. The only reason I didn't immediately quit is because it's just one board member and he's not American, so I'm leaving towards him not understanding how bad things were getting. It was also before the Musk Nazi salute so he gets that tiny benefit of the doubt. Still, it was insanely dumb what he did, and did erode a lot of trust in Proton.
I'm in pretty deep on the email side to the point where leaving would take days or weeks of effort. I'm not above making that effort if I think it's necessary though. I do not yet think it's necessary.
I did just start using my second Proton product, Standard Notes, around two months ago. I'm not honestly sure if I'll renew it when it expires - we'll see how the year goes. I honestly have very little expectation that Proton is enshittifying or turning evil. I'll be very surprised if it becomes a recurring pattern for them.
You know what would be really great? If Thunderbird actually had its own email service (@thunderbird.net) and not just a client. When they were switching K9 Mail over to Thunderbird mobile, it seemed like there might have been the slightest hint on their blog that they were at least considering it (or maybe I dreamed it). Might be a good source of income for Mozilla too...🤔
Just uninstalled the app.
If I’m honest I did use it much because my friends mostly don’t encrypt emails.
I did manage to get them all on to Signal, so mostly use that for comms now.
Still use Gmail for email because I’m a corpo bootlicker like my friends.
I left and glad I did. It was a needed wake-up call. All-in-one is inherently risky. I'd rather support smaller, more focused products. If one doesn't fit my needs down the line, it's way easier to switch.
- Email: Tuta (meh, loading issues)
- Calendar: Tuta (don't like, can't handle recurring events)
- VPN: Mullvad (like)
- Drive: Tresorit (like)
- Passwords: already using Bitwarden (love)
I haven't left, but now it's something that's on the cards, which wasn't the case beforehand.
I only recently linked my domain to my ProtonMail account, so if I do switch it should be relatively painless given I'll transfer the domain too, and the original PM address has become more of a lost cause anyway due to spam.
I was never on Proton. Back when I decided to degoogle my digital life I landed on a short list between proton and tutamail. So I deep dive into both. When I researched Proton it stank of corporate technobro culture. The crypto wallet, trying to be an everything platform/brand, style over functionality programming, the communications. It all reeked of corpo bs.
Their only pro was operating from Swiss legal protections. So I landed on Tuta. Not because they were any particularly better, but because they were focused on doing one thing and one thing only at a time. They were also more focused on features over marketing buzzwords which I liked.
I highly-valued the cohesion and simplicity of having a suite of tools provided by a single vendor and all on a single bill, despite how often this turns into a vendor-lock-in strategy
Proton was part of my attempt to de-Google, precisely because it offered email (with custom CNAMEs), calendar, and storage, and because they open-sourced their clients and tools
Despite the UX and feature set being quite bare, I was okay with justifying this with the added privacy (which was a nice-to-have but not a deal-breaker for me)
It seems like all the alternatives are either less open-source, have even fewer features, are even less cohesive (indeed, I'd have to select entirely separate solutions and give up all integrations) or seem to have even fewer resources for development and project sustainability
I see a few people who don't want to switch due to the hassle it would take with changing email addresses, presumably because they use one of the @proton.me email domains. Get your own email domain! It's super cheap (if you choose one of the new TLDs, it can be as low as few dollars a year), the setup isn't really hard - you just change a few DNS values, and that's basically it - you can use whatever email you want that ends with your domain. It might take a while to slowly replace all your @proton.me emails with your domain one, but if you're not in a hurry and change any old mail you see during your day-to-day activities, you'll eventually be done with it, and you can set up mail forwarding to your domain for mail that arrives to your old @proton.me address.
And if you ever need to move to a different provider, you just change the DNS records again to a new provider, and your email will start coming to the new one immediately.
I was looking at Proton for mail and calendar right around the time the Andy thing kicked off. I hadn’t yet pulled the trigger on Proton due to their fairly high pricing. I ultimately decided on Tuta for mail and calendar, and I have no issues using their native/desktop apps. I am still forwarding everything from my Gmail account as I slowly work through changing my email on key services. So far so good.
The one issue I had with Tuta is no ability to import mail unless you are at the highest priced tier. I’m on the middle one so no import. What I did instead was just download a copy of my Gmail to an MBOX file, and I have that on my desktop and access it with Thunderbird (read only) as needed. This was fine for me as I don’t have much mail of significance.
Switching was a small action, but one that made me feel immediately better, like I did something concrete in opposition to the rapidly enshittifying tech universe.
I bought a year of unlimited in November but I have canceled and will be migrating when my year is up
What's the deal with Lavabit these days? Are they good? I don't keep up with things that well. Am old man.
I started testing out alternatives immediately after discovering his post. I understand they're saying this was a mistake and was meant to have been posted from his official account and not the company account, but that is still a bit off putting to me. As others have mentioned, this also made me aware of how many eggs I have in this basket, and after trying out alternatives for a few days I made the full switch away from ProtonMail, Calendar and VPN to Tuta + Mullvad.
Unfortunately, my Unlimited plan renewed in November and customer service has stated they will not refund me for the remaining time, as 30 days has passed. Oh well, I can at least cancel my auto-renewal :)
No. Because changing email providers is a royal pain in the ass. Changed from Google to Ctemplar and from that to proton a year later after ctemplar went down.
I am not going to use smaller email providers because of that experience, and proton still seems to be the best of both worlds.
I absolutely hate that i am supporting a CEO like that with my money but I'm not in the mood to migrate anytime soon. Took me more than a whole weekend last time.I use Azire for vpn since they own their servers and let you use a plain old wireguard client. Before that I used Mullvad but I need port forwarding and a few sites I frequent blocked it for some reason. Only use Proton’s VPN for less sensitive stuff and being able to exit in lots of countries. The inconsistency in all the apps’ UIs sort of irks me, and the lack of a drive client for Linux is a negative.
I only recently finished migrating all my email to Proton so I’m probably leaving it for now. But I’m eyeballing replacements. His comments on X seemingly sucking up to Trump weirds me out… especially after the shock and awe shit show happening this week
Me +wife were seriously considering switching to proton, but we had been "considering" for like half a year. So while the transfer now has been officially put on hold indefinitely, that's in practice no different from how it was before :)
Have considered tuta but there are several reasons I'm not sold on that service - primarily that they manage to give me (who isn't a techie!) the impression (I might be wrong...) of a walled garden where all the benefits /convenience of the service evaporate (??) as soon as you need to talk to a non-tuta user.(??)
I have an account there that I use as a junk email account and their android calendar app. Nothing else. I used to use davx5 and caldav via my primary email provider but I had issues with it losing notification settings on recurring events. I may go look for a different calendar solution. I'll probably still use it for junk mail.
I use the following services, and have for a couple years now I think.
Mailfence for email Mullvad for VPN
i have free proton accounts as am not loggin in to close them because lazy. but i havent really used it anymore...maybe for trashmail stuff. mullvad is cooler and 1$ rootboxes anywhere also. disroot,riseup and so many other mailproviders are cool too. i dont get why proton is so relevant to some. did you guys buy a lifetime package or why?
I know this is lazy of me, but no. I was going to, downloaded tuta and everything, but I just switched this year and finally have it where I want it. I have my stuff forwarded from my old emails, and most of my important stuff has the email. I also failed to vary my programs, so it's also my VPN and password manager. Even just getting starting with the email was giving me a headache.
And, honestly, the vpn is better than mullvad (to me). When I was attempting to switch, I started with mullvad, but it was so much slower. And I had issues on sites I normally had no issues with. I'll keep the resources and maybe start transferring little by little as time goes on.
No, I wouldn't switch unless it compromise my privacy. People are overreacting and politics makes them sensitive.
There are a few alternatives in mind for me. Mailbox, posteo, disroot. Disroot is the only one among these with a free email. But posteo and mailbox do have cheap tiers. Posteo doesn't have support for custom domains last I checked.
That's just email. I've already not been using proton for almost everything else. KeepassXC for passwords, Addy.io for aliases, Syncthing and offline storage across my 3 devices instead of any Drive. VPN I rarely use so free proton is enough for that. Mullvad exists on the off chance I need it for a while (it's a constant price per month how many ever months you choose, and you can just "top up" with some amount and it will last you the appropriate number of days).
No. Because for some stupid reason, my bank will only accept a proton mail address.