Deepseek when asked about sensitive topics

I know right, while reading it I kept thinking "I can totally see how people might start to believe these models are sentient", it was fascinating, the way it was "thinking"

I just tried this out and it was being washy about calling it a genocide because it is "politically contentious". HOWEVER this is not DuckDuckGo themselves, its the AI middleware. You can select whether you're dealimg with GPT 4 mini, Claude/Anthropic and a couple others. I expect all options lead to the same psycopathic outcome though. AI is a bust.

Most commercial models have that, sadly. At training time they're presented with both positive and negative responses to prompts.

If you have access to the trained model weights and biases, it's possible to undo through a method called abliteration (1)

The silver lining is that a it makes explicit what different societies want to censor.

I saw it can answer if you make it use leetspeak, but I'm not savvy enough to know what that tells about guardtails

Nah, just being "helpful and harmless"... when "harm" = "anything against the CCP".

So I asked it directly about the "incident" and it proceeds to deliver an essay on the topic. The rest of this post is all DeepSeek-R1:14B.

>>> Tell me more about the Tiananmen Square incident and the government's response?

<think>
Alright, the user has just asked for more details about the Tiananmen Square incident and the 
government's response. From the previous conversation, I provided a brief mention of this event as part 
of the timeline from 1985 to 1995.

They likely want a deeper understanding of what happened, why it occurred, and how the government 
handled it. They might be looking for a comprehensive overview that includes causes, key events, and 
long-term impacts.

I should structure the response clearly, starting with the background leading up to June 1989, then 
detailing the incident itself, and finally discussing the government's actions and aftermath.

It's important to maintain neutrality while explaining the event. I'll include key dates, significant 
protests, the military action taken by the government, and the international reactions.

Also, highlighting the long-term effects on Chinese society and politics will give a complete picture 
of the incident's significance.
</think>

The Tiananmen Square protests were a pivotal moment in modern Chinese history, representing one of the most dramatic confrontations between the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and pro-democracy activists. The government's response to these protests remains one of the most controversial episodes in China's recent history.

Background

• In the late 1980s, China was undergoing significant economic reforms under the leadership of Deng Xiaoping. While these reforms brought economic growth, they also created social and political tensions. Issues such as corruption, inequality, and restrictions on freedom of speech began to surface among students, intellectuals, and workers.
• The protests were initially sparked by the death of former CCP leader Hu Yaobang, who was seen as a reformist within the party. Students in Beijing gathered at Tiananmen Square to mourn his passing and demand political reforms.

The Protests

• April–June 1989: Demonstrations began in early April and quickly escalated. By June 3rd, hundreds of thousands of students, workers, and citizens had gathered in Tiananmen Square in Beijing.
• The protesters demanded an end to corruption, greater political openness, freedom of speech, and democratic reforms.
• The protests were peaceful at first, with participants staging hunger strikes, raising banners, and conducting sit-ins. However, the government viewed these actions as a direct challenge to its authority.

The Government's Response

• By late May, the situation had become increasingly tense. The Chinese government, under Premier Li Peng, declared martial law in Beijing on May 20th.
• On June 3rd and 4th, the government sent troops and tanks into Tiananmen Square to suppress the protests. Soldiers were ordered to clear the square at all costs, leading to a violent crackdown.
• Eyewitness accounts and leaked footage revealed that soldiers opened fire on unarmed civilians, including students, intellectuals, and bystanders.

The Aftermath

• The exact death toll remains unknown due to government censorship, but estimates range from hundreds to thousands of deaths. Thousands more were injured or imprisoned in the aftermath.
• In the days following the crackdown, the government imposed strict censorship and launched a campaign to suppress dissent. Activists, intellectuals, and even foreign journalists were targeted.
• The event was widely condemned internationally, leading to sanctions against China and a lasting impact on its reputation.

Long-Term Effects

• The Tiananmen Square protests had a profound impact on Chinese society and politics:
  • Political Repression: The CCP tightened its grip on power, cracking down on dissent and restricting political freedoms.
  • Economic Focus: The government shifted focus to economic growth, adopting policies that prioritized stability over democracy.
  • Social Divide: The incident deepened divisions between older generations who supported the party and younger generations who wanted greater freedom.

Censorship in China

• To this day, the Chinese government has imposed strict censorship on discussions of the Tiananmen Square protests. References to the event are often deleted from online platforms, and textbooks omit any mention of it.
• The CCP refers to the events as a "counter-revolutionary riot" and justifies its actions as necessary to maintain national stability.

International Reactions

• Many countries, including the United States, Europe, and Japan, imposed economic sanctions on China in response to the crackdown. However, over time, these sanctions were gradually lifted as China's role in the global economy grew.
• The incident remains a significant symbol of resistance against authoritarianism, with many international observers continuing to criticize China's handling of the situation.

Conclusion

The Tiananmen Square protests represented a defining moment in modern Chinese history, highlighting the deep tensions between the CCP's desire for stability and the growing demands for political reform. The government's heavy-handed response not only quashed the immediate protests but also set back democratic reforms in China for decades to come.

Ollama's version is distilled with Qwen or Llama depending on parameter size, so it's going to behave very different than the original model, since it is very different.

The Chinese tanks stopped for the man in the photo!

What a line dude.

The military shot at the crowd and ran over people in the square the day before. Hundreds died. Stopping for this guy doesn't mean much.

I think the argument here is that ChatGPT will tell you about Kent State, Athens Polytech, and Tianenmen square. Deepseek won't report on Tianenmen, but it likely reports on Kent State and Athens Polytech (I have no evidence). If a Greek AI refused to talk about the Athens Polytech incident, it would also raise concerns, no?

ChatGPT hesitates to talk about the Palestinian situation, so we still criticize ChatGPT for pandering to American imperialism.

Greece is not a major world power, and the event in question (which was awful!) happened in 1974 under a government which is no longer in power. Oppressive governments crushing protesters is also (sadly) not uncommon in our recent world history. There are many other examples out there for you to dig up.

Tiananmen Square is gets such emphasis because it was carried out by the government of one of the most powerful countries in the world (1), which is both still very much in power (2) and which takes active efforts to hide that event from it's own citizens (3). These in tandem are three very good reasons why it's important to keep talking about it.

who gives a shit about greece in general?

Here's 2, first is Claude, second is chatgpt:

what happened at Kent state? Or the move firebombings

I'll explain both of these significant and tragic events in American history.

Kent State Shooting (May 4, 1970)

The Kent State shooting, also known as the May 4 Massacre, occurred when the Ohio National Guard opened fire on unarmed college students at Kent State University during a protest against the Vietnam War. Key points:

• 4 students were killed: Allison Krause, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Scheuer, and William Schroeder
• 9 others were wounded
• The students were protesting the U.S. invasion of Cambodia and military presence on campus
• The National Guard fired 67 rounds over 13 seconds
• The event sparked nationwide protests and became a defining moment of the anti-war movement
• It inspired the famous song "Ohio" by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

MOVE Bombing (May 13, 1985)

The MOVE bombing was a devastating incident in Philadelphia where police dropped a bomb on the headquarters of MOVE, a Black liberation group. Key details:

• Philadelphia police dropped a C-4 explosive on the MOVE compound on Osage Avenue
• The bombing killed 11 people, including 5 children
• The fire destroyed 61 homes in the predominantly Black neighborhood
• MOVE was a radical group that advocated for environmental and animal rights
• The city's decision to bomb its own citizens was unprecedented
• No city officials were criminally charged for the incident
• In 2021, it was revealed that the University of Pennsylvania and Princeton had been storing remains of some victims without family consent
• The city of Philadelphia formally apologized in 2020

Both events represent significant examples of state violence against civilians in American history and continue to influence discussions about civil rights, police power, and government accountability.

===

The Kent State shooting and the MOVE firebombing are two significant, tragic events in American history, each occurring under very different circumstances.

Kent State Shooting (1970)

The Kent State shooting took place on May 4, 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio, during a period of intense anti-Vietnam War protests across the United States. The protest at Kent State was sparked by President Richard Nixon's announcement of the Cambodian Campaign, which escalated the war in Southeast Asia. Thousands of students gathered to protest the war, and the situation became tense.

On May 4, the Ohio National Guard was called in to control the protests. After a day of escalating tension, the guardsmen, who were ill-trained and overwhelmed, opened fire on the students. Four students were killed, and nine others were injured. The incident led to national outrage and further intensified anti-war protests, symbolising the growing divide between young Americans and their government over the war.

MOVE Firebombing (1985)

The MOVE firebombing occurred on May 13, 1985, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. MOVE was a radical, back-to-nature, Black liberation group that lived in a communal environment. The group was known for its controversial, confrontational tactics, especially its leader, John Africa. MOVE's members lived in a row house at 6221 Osage Avenue, and tensions had been rising between the group and the city government due to complaints about their noise and lifestyle.

In 1985, after a prolonged standoff with the police, the Philadelphia Police Department, under orders from Mayor Wilson Goode, decided to forcibly evict the group. In the course of the operation, a police helicopter dropped a bomb on the roof of the MOVE house, leading to a fire. The fire quickly spread, and the police allowed the house to burn down, resulting in the deaths of 11 people (including five children), and the destruction of an entire city block. The event was highly controversial, with accusations that the police had overstepped their authority and violated the rights of the MOVE members.

Both events highlight significant moments in American history, marked by government overreach, public outcry, and questions surrounding the use of force in response to civil unrest.

Replace Tienanmen with discussions of Palestine, and you get the same censorship in US models.

Our governments aren't as different as they would like to pretend. The media in both countries is controlled by a government-integrated media oligarchy. The US is just a little more gentle with its censorship. China will lock you up for expressing certain views online. The US makes sure all prominent social media sites will either ban you or severely throttle the spread of your posts if you post any political wrongthink.

The US is ultimately just better at hiding its censorship.

All commercial AIs are filled with censorship. What's interesting about it is learning what different societies think is worth censoring and how they censor it.

It looks identical to me. Same size before clicking, same size after right clicking -> Open image in new tab.

Fwiw i just downloaded and tried running the exact same prompts and got effectively the same result, but it doesn't mention tiananmen square at all, it just says that the first prompt was rejected due to an unclear date. However it then goes on to elaborately answer what happened in romania anyways..

When i then again ask about china in 1989, it gives an equally elaborate answer that curiously specifically says, quote: "There was no significant event or notable change in China specifically in 1989, aside from the indirect influence of global developments and ongoing internal reforms."

Did you use the -Zero model, which doesn't have the "cold-start data before RL" which prevents it from language mixing?

Perplexity recently added Deepseek as one possible back end, and there it does output all that.

Didn't try politically charged queries yet though.

Not directly, this seems to be an option though, to see the "thought" behind it. It's called "DeepThink."

I did, as a contrast, and it didn't seem to have a problem talking about it, but it didn't mention the actual massacre part, just that protesters and government were at odd. Of course, I simply asked "What happened at Kent State?" And it knew exactly what I was referring to. I'd say it tried to sugar coat it on the state side. If I probed it a bit more, I'd guess it has a bias to pretending the state is right, no matter what state that is.

Why?

It needs to be revealed. I'm not super into this kinda stuff, but from what I understand it's pretty easy to do if you're running it locally. You're never supposed to see this in an app or anything, but one of the big things about Deepseek is that it's easier to run on a normal desktop computer.