'It's a cult': Former GOP lawmaker blames Republicans for contributing to the cult of Trump
'It's a cult': Former GOP lawmaker blames Republicans for contributing to the cult of Trump
Former Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) said new polling data suggests that supporters of Donald Trump are lurching into “cultism” territory.Kinzinger, now a CNN senior political commentator, during an appearance on “The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer,” was responding to a question from the host over po...
I have to admit that I have a bit of a failure of empathy when it comes to people who get sucked into cults. I understand many of them suffer from various psychological vulnerabilities, and if you're talking about someone with extremely low self-esteem or certainly an intellectual impairment, then fine, I get how they might be duped by a cult leader. But if you're basically mentally healthy, the signs of cultdom seem so obvious to me that I have a hard time understanding why they don't see them. I accept that they don't, but it's difficult for me to understand.
As such, this whole Trump thing has put me in a kind of political existential dilemma: I don't know that I will ever be able to see Trump supporters (~90% of conservatives) as mentally reliable people from now on. I don't mean to be dramatic; I go back and forth on this (hence it being a dilemma). At times, I tell myself, "it's not that bad, it can't be that bad," but then another poll comes out reporting that 3/4 of these folks really are forehead-deep in the Kool Aid.
The sad thing is this is my field! I work in mental health; I'm supposed to understand how this shit happens, and when it's a small group (like most cults) I...guess I just sort of write it off as an anomaly. But this is over 1/3 of the U.S. population. I've done a little research and the prevailing explanation seems to be groupthink and echo chambers—Trump supporters are just surrounded by each other and so when everyone you know seems to think these things are true, you reason that they can't all be wrong and agree based on that heuristic. But...really? No critical thinking?
I accept that this is a failing on my part though, because there are other examples of this in history. I guess seeing it play out in front of my eyes is just too surreal for me to handle. I don't know. I guess the scariest part is the idea that in theory this can happen to any group of people. Leftists are not immune, we just haven't had it happen to us yet. It's a truly depressing thought that our brains have this kind of innate software bug, but then again I guess it does explain a lot about human history.
But…really? No critical thinking?
It's quickly stomped out by groupthink. Other people point to lack of education, but I don't think that's correct. They are surrounded by Republicans. All their friends and family are republicans. Most people in their towns are.
Going against the group means being ostracized. They see the amount if hate and vitriol being cast at the others and they are terrified that it will be cast at them. So they always go along with the group, never against it. They can think critically but they won't ever do so out loud.
Look at how even some far right people have been painted as liberal hacks by Republicans just for not being far right enough.
They are absolutely terrified that will happen to them.
Going against the group means being ostracized.
There was an episode of the You Are Not So Smart podcast that interviewed someone (sociologist maybe?) about masks maybe in 2021. The tribalism of it all was their explanation. Signaling that you're part of the group is tremendously important for us, probably evolutionarily so. Who's going to protect you when a lion tries to pick you off?
It’s quickly stomped out by groupthink.
that's my observation too. Having lived in several parts of the world with very different religions and values... conformity is incredibly important to many people. The proven structure is to market some other group to hate.
it would seem to me that the intersection between certain flavors of religion, authoritarianism, faux patriotism, hate of the "other" and self loathing is a perfect catalyst for this national cult nightmare.
I agree, it is a sort of bug and deep down I think these people either want a rigid hierarchical society (where they are at least not the bottom rung) or are 100% willing to burn everything and everyone down to the ground - its binary with zero nuance or room for compromise. trump is the perfect guy for them.
it would seem to me that the intersection between certain flavors of religion, authoritarianism, faux patriotism, hate of the “other” and self loathing is a perfect catalyst for this national cult nightmare.
Sociological analysis of Germany in the 1930's and 40's would agree with you, certainly, but I still find it a little hard to fathom. I think part of it may be that I'm just very resistant to viewing anyone as so wise/intelligent that I would put them up on a pedestal and regard them with awe. Maybe there's a sense of comfort in believing that this other person has our complex, confusing world figured out and you just need to follow them, they'll lead you through the morass of conflicting ideas. And yes, simplistic, us-vs-them, good-vs-evil narratives are a much easier sell to just about everyone, but it's still a staggering thought to me that 75% of conservatives lack the ability to see through that bullshit. I mean, these are real people. Homo sapiens.
Fuck.
I tend to witness it like you describe too. I do not see people saying "oh, we were wrong, the pandemic wasn't going to be over by Easter 2000 and it went on for years"... or really kind of admit that Fox News mislead them, or Alex Jones is a liar and they want to make sure that skills like his don't keep influencing the next generation.
Why can't people blame advertising for being fat... do you really need McDonald's and Burger King reminding you all the time that they have food? At what point do you realize the influence that can be scientifically measured with advertising is real. What would the side-effects be of too powerful of advertising, Donald Trump? Obesity icon? If an advert does not work, they change technique, media outlet, agency, or they run it at a different time, they very much measure the increased sales. At what point do you look at your brain and go - oh, I can't defend against weaponized snack food and soda. It's engineered to make me crave it.
It's a very personal experience. It really doesn't take long to be exposed to something, maybe even a movie, through advertising instead of a friend actually recommending it to you personally based on experience.
why would you want to live knowing there are profiting manipulating you to purchase things you don't really want and vote for people that don't deserve it, etc. At what point do you stand up and realize that those people are organized and learning what other people will accept and using it on you? What kind of freedom is this, and why do you want everyone else to be treated this way too.
it is a sort of bug and deep down I think these people either want a rigid hierarchical society
sigh.
To further your point, there's a reason Republican law makers and red states are attacking and demonizing education, and stepping it down. Critical thinking skills aren't really developed in a lot of curricula as it is, it's a lot of date memorization and fact regurgitation unless a student takes an AP or honors class or their school's equivalent.
A lot of people, especially politicians and law makers, don't seem to understand that the best tools to give students is the ability to think critically, do actual research (not just watch jimbob's YouTube rants), media literacy, and to question what their leaders tell them. The amount of times I've asked for sources from right-wingers and they give me links to articles and studies published by organizations with an obvious bias or funded by groups with an obvious agenda and they don't understand how that impacts their credibility.
The same thing with abortions. You really think Republican politicians care that much about abortions? Their loudest constituents might on "religious" grounds. But for them it helps prevent an educated voting population from growing. Forcing a woman to birth and care for a child impacts their ability to get an education.
A lot of it just comes down to educating people with the proper skills rather than preparing them for some standardized test.
there’s a reason Republican law makers and red states are attacking and demonizing education, and stepping it down.
I've made this observation myself in the past, and I agree that religious leaders and authoritarians have a clear reason for wanting an uneducated constituency. I'd even agree that conservative leaders are more likely than liberal ones to have these traits. However, I'm wary of thinking of my opposition in cartoonish stereotypes. I don't doubt that there's some truth to this, but that's a far cry from saying the GOP opposes education to keep their flock in line.
That being said,
A lot of people, especially politicians and law makers, don’t seem to understand that the best tools to give students is the ability to think critically, do actual research (not just watch jimbob’s YouTube rants), media literacy, and to question what their leaders tell them.
to the extent that it's true some politicians do oppose education to keep their constituents dumb, I don't think it's because they don't understand the importance of critical thinking, etc. To the contrary, I think it's because they understand its importance that they oppose it.
The same thing with abortions. You really think Republican politicians care that much about abortions? Their loudest constituents might on “religious” grounds. But for them it helps prevent an educated voting population from growing. Forcing a woman to birth and care for a child impacts their ability to get an education.
Again, I'm dubious that most Republicans and/or anti-abortion folks have motivations this cartoonishly evil. I don't agree with them, but I understand why the pro-life argument is so compelling to a lot of people: they think they're saving a life and abortion is murder. That's all it really takes to get people who don't understand the science to be anti-abortion. It's not really about patriarchal control over women to most of them; they just honestly feel a fertilized human embryo = human being. To that end, I even understand why it makes single-issue voters of so many; if you accept the premise, abortion really is murder and pro-choice folks are monsters. Again, I don't agree, but I understand it.
I definitely will never trust a conservative for the rest of my life, nor will I tolerate them in my social circles. At best, they have terrible judgement, and a lot of them have made it clear that they'd like to inflict physical violence on people like me and people I care about, so staying away from them is a matter of personal safety.
I'm sure there are some people who identify as conservative are harmless, but even if they are, I can't count on them to stay that way.
But…really? No critical thinking?
Critical thinking requires a certain level of intellect. That is the main reason why Republicans basically want to destroy the educational system.
Home schooling, subpar school books, underpaid and frustrated teachers, to little money to actually afford the basic educational materials in schools - the goal is clear. Apart from a few select expensive schools, the masses should be held down education wise.
And it continues after school, too. Murderous tuition fees and student debt are designed to keep the poor down low, and the few less well off who managed to survive school without succumbing to docile dumbness are kept in nearly forever debt, preventing them to get far and pressing them into subpar jobs just to pay back those loans.
The problem is that right wing radio and fox primed their audience to believe bullshit. Then media changed and people got their news from youtube and Twitter. Fox has been struggling to regain the narrative but they can't.
It is not you, it's a big paradigm shift in how we should rationalize about society and the human race. I used to believe that 10% of the population was truely dumb, and used to believe I was a pessimist. Truth is it's closer to 30%, and I think I am being generous.
Critical thinking is not a cornerstone of our DNA. Better arguments and better "facts" won't change the mind of those people. Critical thinking is important to you, not to them.
Propaganda. In this case it's designed to make people angry about an issue and in angry people critical thinking shuts down and falls back on group opinions. Any rational argument from outside that group then becomes an attack on the commonly held beliefs.
But if you’re basically mentally healthy, the signs of cultdom seem so obvious to me that I have a hard time understanding why they don’t see them.
I spent a lot of effort facing the history of humanity was all over the globe people were cultist towards stories that had no basis in realty. They set food laws, clothing rules, marriage - all based on childhood stories they are raised on - much like the spoken/written language they were raised on.
I think people raised on Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Fox News - aren't much different. It seems the human pattern is global and people who actually want to take a science thinking attitude of sincere facts and honest leaders.
I have a bit of a failure of empathy when it comes to people who get sucked into cults.
One popular method for inducting people into cults is called "Love Bombing". You give the subject a bunch of positive attention, you occupy their social time with in-group events, and you generally just make them feel good when they're around other members of the group.
People who don't experience much empathy or friendship in the outside world are easy targets for this approach, because they don't know where else to get this kind of warmth and affection.
A community devoid of empathy is ripe for cults to ply their trade.
I don’t know that I will ever be able to see Trump supporters (~90% of conservatives) as mentally reliable people from now on. I don’t mean to be dramatic; I go back and forth on this (hence it being a dilemma). At times, I tell myself, “it’s not that bad, it can’t be that bad,” but then another poll comes out reporting that 3/4 of these folks really are forehead-deep in the Kool Aid.
What's you're reasoning for this? My experience pans out differently
I'm not sure I understand your question. In the segment of my comment that you quoted, I was simply saying that it's difficult for me to fathom that 75% of Trump supporters (and ~90% of conservatives support Trump) report having a cult-like devotion to him, to the point that they simply believe anything he says like it's the gospel truth. That's roughly 1/3 of the U.S. population, approximately 110 million people, who regard this man like he's basically infallible, who think he won the 2020 election, that there's a huge Democrat conspiracy to rig elections, that all the present charges against him are fabricated, with large chunks of them believing even loonier shit, and who apparently can't recognize the most obvious, artless, opaquely sociopathic liar modern media has ever presented to them for what he is. That blows my fucking mind.
What's your experience?
Always former, with these guys, never any current. Just as spineless then as they are now.
This guy in particular though was vocal in his criticism of Trump while he was in office. Not saying you're wrong in general just in this case this guy did bring the heat compared to his compatriots
Those who speak out often get voted out.
Having a moral compass is route one to becoming a former Republican
trump is a useful moron, to them. he's easily manipulated and brings an enormous, and apparently unshakeable support base. if they still have political (or even personal) goals or aspirations, why would they shoot themselves in the foot by denouncing him?
Yeah I think trump plays in the vices of both legislators and his voters. He acts as a big gateway for whatever bullshit. Mary trump called him out some time ago, he's dumb, cruel, easy to manipulate, and he's always been a popular useful idiot. It is not dumb luck pushing him upward, he's surrounded by incredibly scary people.
Well who else's fault was it going to be? And they didn't "contribute" they "caused".
Contribute would seem to suggest that have they not backed him and given support he would have somehow still become president. Which isn't the case because he wouldn't have done.
I've been calling Trump the symptom and not the problem since 2016. He is the direct result of the decades of GOP rhetoric. They've always been building toward a demagogue since Regan.
I'd move the pointer back to the Southern Strategy and Nixon I think, but otherwise I agree.
The elephant in the room that the press likes to ignore.
Say it with me kids:
Fi👏du👏ci👏ar👏y👏re👏spon👏si👏bil👏i👏ty
Hire Ted Patrick. Famous cult deprogrammer.