How Lemmy public modlog allows to call out toxic and troll users, and should we have a community about this?

That's a great example of a toxic redditor coming to the fediverse hoping people would tolerate his behaviour, but surprise surprise:

we don't

...and gets banned lol.

A community dedicated to getting mad at people will quickly become just as toxic, if not more so.

I think its not a great idea.

Mods are like politicians, they need to be held accountable. Users are like the citizens/residents, if someone did something wrong, there should be judgement by the "court system" or in case of an online forum, judged by moderators. A civillian not involved in politics (aka: doing forum moderation) shouldn't face as much scrutiny as a politician.

We protest when politicians do bad things. But we don't form a mob and go to a civillian's house to harass them when they do bad things, that just brings the pitfork mob mentality. A user who isn't doing moderation shouldn't have to face a mob, such a community is just gonna become a place to harass users.

TLDR: Moderators should face more scrutiny than users. Users shouldn't have to face a mob's judgement everytime whenever there's perceived wrongdoing.

Should we consider having a similar community for toxic users?

I think that it's a bad idea because that community would become a pitchfork emporium. Users posting there would be a textbook example of users that we shouldn't want in the Fediverse: whiny, entitled, assumptive, passive aggressive. It's how the cookie crumbles with this sort of meta-community.

To avoid that, you'd need to restrict the scope and make it objective, like !yepowertrippinbastards does - that comm is only about mods/admins acting as such and abusing their power.

The problem is, you only would see the content that was removed. It is also extremely one sided. The modlog isn't what it was, and now they have removed legitimacy from it by removing the names of the mods and admins who did the enforcement, even though it was already relatively easy and straightforward to create a moderation alt. So you don't get the visibility of any moderator abuse either. There's also the fact that moderators and admins do lie.

A community dedicated to calling out power tripping mods exists because it affects everybody and there is no moderator of moderator decisions, save for admins who, if not part of the problem also have other problems to deal with. There is no power tripping user because users basically have no power. The counter to yepowertrippingbastards for users already exists, it's called being a moderator, and they get to "post" about it in a modlog where their and only their word gets posted, where they are allowed to do it anonymously under the cover of seeming but not actual unanimity, and where users don't get a chance to tell their side of the story. Mods also have their own internal groups to address concerns of problem users.

Having a public community about it both makes those moderators who participate seem even more insecure and would also be a source of drama as they try to create a new version of the modlog in community form while finding out communities are not homogeneous.

No

I don't think we need that kinda community anymore, pretty sure we already have similar community

I agree that some Lemmy users are annoying and as bad as Reddit. But, man, if you behave like that, you're no better lol, in fact worse.

I agree with @OpenStars@piefed.social, I started using recently PieFed and even contributed to the code, and PieFed seems to have a good feature specific to this case, like reputation points (though I have a feeling this could also be abused?)

Bro looked in the mirror and got such a hard whiplash he astral-projected into a parallel universe where he's a paragon of virtue

!meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

for some

Fedigrow:

To discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

How is this post relevant to this community? You posted it here because you're a moderator so you know it won't be removed?

Dunking on someone who was (rightfully) banned isn't the kind of post that fosters good community interactions. The moderation system works, that's great. Can we not give more oxygen to the troll's commentary?

Lemmy is worse than reddit though. Especially if you don't block .ml.

Though they have predictably gotten quieter now that the election is over.

Maybe !fediverselore@lemmy.ca is a good place to post this.

LMFAO

Because your obnoxious obliviousness makes light on the idea of piracy. Like you expect it to hold your hand in every step of the way. Plus, I am overwhelmingly tired of people like you with that kind of attitude. You’re the kind of pirate that downloads and barely learns. The ones always asking if they need a VPN for the thousandth time when we’ve told you for the thousandth time and more, that you do. So, no, I do not have to treat you with kindness. Enjoy the block. Keep raining those petty downvotes of yours for all I care.

If someone is asking me about same Piracy Question. I am gonna tell them 1000 times. Because I was also noob at some point.

Na, what will it do apart from bringing trolls and other asshats more attention? Attention is what they want.

Calling out mods for what? Not allowing your brand of freeze peach? Personally I think Lemmy needs more strong moderators because right now most instance's "all" feeds are just another stale parade of "memes". There is a lot of junk filler, and very few unique communities that make the Lemmyverse something that stands apart from Reddit.

I would also encourage instance admins to de-federate instances that host your idea of a "community" purpose built to publicly "call out" users. It's toxic.

I'm kind of upset that this 'toxic' person came from the same instance as I'm using. Most people I encounter on the local pages aren't bad folks.

1.) NOWHERE is worse than reddit mods. They can diaf.

B.) I love the modlog. Half the time I have to go "what the hell did I say to get deleted?!" and dredging it up to see what I said and the reason, which is usually "rule 5" or the like. I also like seeing deleted posts responding to mine that got deleted before I read them. Half the time they didn't say anything particularly bad towards me, just used a bad word or went off topic.

LASTLY.) Any changes that keep mods and admins out of dictatorial power is perfect. I got banned on Reddit for "being racist" because I called out criminals and some other jackasses were saying "black people" as the word "criminal" even though the crimes were in a predominantly white area so it was a bad assumption from the start. I have a black GF and my post history has ZERO racist comments or remarks. I asked the mod and they said it was because I was a racist like everyone else getting banned and blocked me and reported me for harassing them. I appealed it to the reddit admins, they did nothing and said the mod was in the right and i started getting banned in other subs for nonsense, only to find out from others they all share a couple mods...of note, this is how it went down, this isn't me editing the story in my favor, it was exactly that absurd and blatant...don't let Lemmy become THAT bullshit.

I don't want to come off all self-righteous as in "PieFed has that already"... but OTOH it's relevant that, yeah, PieFed has something for that already.😄 It is described at https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/, and I think its way too sensitive atm, labeling users of comics in particular as potentially troublesome bc they post more than comment, but anyway it seems relevant here as an attempt to do what you are saying: to allow for some measure of an account's "reputation" across the Fediverse, similar to what those aforementioned communities do irt mods to let people know about stuff that they may find pertinent as they make decisions about what to do about it - like not post to certain communities and instead help others grow. In short it's a tool that helps shorten the learning curve rather than make each person have to do all that work all entirely on their own.

So someone downvotes twice as often as they upvote?

Someone has twice as many heavily-downvoted comments as positive or neutral? Also a paddling. It also helps provide additional choices beyond merely a moderator's power to "remove vs. allow" - one day a user could perhaps make their own thresholds, or like automatically collapse (to deemphasize, but while still retaining) a comment from such a user. Or not - I have some of that turned OFF at PieFed, but it's awesome that it's there if someone were to want that.

Someone has a brand-new account merely hours old? That's NOT a paddling, but it is worth its own unique icon to let recipients know that they are dealing with a newborn (ofc they could be an alt) who may not realize how the Fediverse works.

I complain about the same thing, actually, and get accused of the same thing. I don't know whether this was true for the person in this example, but the modlog severely lacks context, which is what I'm confronted with as I clash heavily with the extremists on this platform who constantly advocate for murder, mob rule, and genocide, or them simping for terrorist groups like Hamas.

Same thing happened on Reddit, just opposite spectrum, like them refusing to remove Nazi content, calls for genocide and violence against brown people & muslims. Lemmy has basically the same issue as Reddit, where power tripping mods are in full control of the narrative, and the modlog helps them because they can just scrub the evidence and then claim ridiculous removal or ban reasons. I got recently accused by another user for being a political troll like Linkerbaan (if you don't know, some Nazi shithead troll with the dumbest takes), even though mine and his reputation points (mbin) were literally polar opposites, since he was easily identifiable as a negative karma troll (something Reddit unfortunately made harder by capping their karma system at -100). All just because I have a firm principled stance against extremism. Their alleged proof was the modlog of my account, by directly comparing it to his. His account was older, but he also only had like 90 or so comments, while I'm at like 4700 and also tend to participate in politically loaded topics.

db0's community is laughable as well, because db0 himself is doing mod abuse and partially responsible for how my modlog looks like, since he's controlling so many communities (good old powermods, another issue imported from Reddit). He's accusing me of painting all leftist (which ironically would include myself) as terrorists or whatever. First example: I confronted him later where he tried to blame other mods, then other instance admins: https:// A while ago I got banned on various communities that db0 moderates, for the same alleged accusation / spin, just because I said that the same people who glorify the murder of that asshole CEO, who now call for more killing, are the same people who also suck Hamas dick. Maybe you don't like my choice of words for those people, but that does not make me a troll. And just because the majority on this platform seemingly seems to swim in this extremist direction, does not mean I have to join that mindset too, just to fit in.

TLDR: This platform lacks nuance, just like Reddit. Probably worse than Reddit.

This idea sounds conceptually similar to something like kiwifarms, which seems like a red flag imo

oh i recently had an interaction with this person. i genuinely felt they needed to go outside