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Daytime energy is soon going to be free in much of the world. The advances in green tech, especially solar and batteries, are real. Much faster progress than even the optimists were predicting a decade ago. The revolution is reaching a tipping point where it becomes self-sustaining and requires no state subsidies. I am not a tech utopian, and this alone will not save us. But there's no denying it's good news. It's all happening far too late but it does look like humans are going to kick their fossil habit after all.
Inconvenient footnote: thank China.
Optimistic of you to assume pricing is cost-plus not willingness-to-pay. US utilities (and their foreign counterparts) will only too gladly keep charging you
Agreed. In theory that problem can be dealt with by properly regulated competition.
But regulation is the enemy and only serves to harm the poor, poor multinational conglomerates!
People can talk shit on China from a geopolitical stance and I'll agree with them, but yeah, they picked up the slack where other countries were lacking when it came to green progression. Technically our (US) own fault too. Greed ruling over progression really fucked us.
Can't wait to get charged $0.50/kWh by PGE for energy they generate for free, weeee.
Best I can do is more bitcoins
Capitalism only encourages innovation when its profitable. Its a bit of a flaw.
It's gotten so good that China might be restricting output to keep the prices high...
(their onshore wind, and pumped hydro storage, are also great success stories, as is the EV industry there)
Indeed. China is such a paradox. An absolute anathema in terms of culture and politics. It's almost impossible for us Westerners to grasp how a people could accept that level of authoritarianism, how they could value their personal freedom so little. And yet, and yet. Without China we would be royally screwed. They are pulling the weight of the green transition basically alone. So personally I've decided to hold off on China-bashing for now.
Tiananmen Square was not that long ago. There are lots of living people who would have seen their fellow students get crushed by tanks and rinsed down a drain.
That will keep a generation and their children quiet. Their children have also now seen how risings are punished via Hong Kong.
I don’t think it’s even possible to imagine what you would do having seen your government enact that kind of violence on your peers. So I certainly don’t judge.
In a way it's even scarier than that. Most younger Chinese do not even know those things happened. I can confirm this incredible fact from personal experience. At this point "Tiananmen Square 1989" has more meaning to the average educated Westerner than it does over there. It has been scrubbed from history.
It's almost impossible for us Westerners to grasp how a people could accept that level of authoritarianism, how they could value their personal freedom so little.
This assumes that they have an alternative to authoritarianism that they could enact if they wanted. For some reason, the authorities don't allow that. And the authorities also don't like when people talk about it, so it's difficult to discuss and convince others that authoritarianism is bad.
True but it's not like China has never decided enough was enough and replaced their leadership by force
Yes sure but China has never been anything remotely like a Western democracy. It would be difficult to keep the lid on a billion people if they really wanted to live differently. Political culture runs deep.
If they want to defer to authority, they can just keep voting in the ruling party. Democracy doesn't mean no choices.
Voting? Democratic elections are literally not a thing in China, at least not higher than the level of the village. There are no political parties other than the Communist Party. But for Western democracies I do agree. We have no excuses.
My later comment was misunderstood. If being ruled by strong Communist leaders is the "political culture" of China, then fine. Give them a choice every few years and they will keep selecting that.
But we all know that the "revolution" needs to maintained by not giving the people the choice. If given a choice, the people might be "fooled" by Western influence and select someone other than the Communists. So the Communists pick all the candidates and then let the people choose only between them.
The fact is that the "political culture" that supposedly backs authoritarianism would not survive free and open elections. The political culture being unwaveringly Communist is a sham and a lie.
Fair point. I just looked into this and what I said was roughly correct: there are indeed somewhat open elections at the local level in China, but further up the pyramid everything is locked down by the Communist Party hierarchy, as you say.
Turns out to be a pretty complicated system in theory, and it must work to some degree because China just had 40 years of incredibly successful development.
Voting is absolutely meaningless in Xi's China. But I gotta give it to them for their solar panel work. Too bad it's all about to jump in price due to the idiotic tariffs.
Westerners to grasp how a people could accept that level of authoritarianism,
So personally I've decided to hold off on China-bashing for now.
You just did, according to .ml users, because ACkShuLly cHiNa iSnT aN AuThoRitArIaN CounTRy
Joke's on them: not only authoritarian, but capitalist authoritarian.
Yes, but, we depend on fossil fuels for far more than just energy. We still get most of our plastics from them, and most of our fertilizer, without which we can't feed most of the developed countries. And while renewables are great for stationary use, we still don't have anything with the energy density of fossil fuels for cars, shipping, air travel, and cargo. And, whether anyone thinks it's a good use or not, war is entirely, inefficiently, and intensely run on oil.
There are a lot of other issues entirely unrelated to power grid energy production we have to solve first, the most challenging being our own aggressive human nature. We're a long way from kicking the oil habit.
The energy density of batteries just keeps increasing, for cars at least it's now good enough. I agree completely about the rest but this was meant to be a happy thread! I agree with OP that we need to talk about good news too sometimes.
Fair point about positive things; I just think it's important to not delude ourselves.
Completely agree. Self-delusion is such a temptation and the danger is real.
Is there a good place to ask about independent (non-grid-connected) solar for an otherwise grid-connected structure? I'd love to set something like this up, but can't find any systems which don't require wiring into the gird.
Why would you pass up on the free money of selling the power? You're probably looking for a hybrid system if you just want to keep the lights on during a service outage. Or I guess you can just build an off grid system and wire it to a generator transfer switch if you want to power your house circuits but only during an outage.
Most half decent solar installers can help either way.
Mostly because I am not in a place, financially or home-wise, to install a full grid-connected system. I'm just looking for something that I can use to charge enough battery to run a lamp, fan, charge devices, or other such similar light loads on a daily basis. It won't bring my power bill to zero, but it will chip away at it.
Oh so not really even your home circuits then. Just get something like a jackery, ecoflow, or bluetti. I've had a bluetti and ecoflow and recommend an ecoflow product. If you really really wanted to you could power an in wall circuit with one but it would be pretty jank.
I've set up an off grid solar system out of necessity. Used to be an electrician so I know a good bit (but not everything by any means). What are your questions I can maybe point you in the right direction.
Based on your initial question, it depends on local zoning. You can likely legally grid tie a set up and have a battery backup. I think if you want to be legal I'd go that route.
If you want I think you could set up a completely separate system in a more sneaky fashion that is completely isolated from the grid / your existing house circuitry. But when grid tying (including into your house circuitry) you have to be pretty safe because that power can go upstream and feed the grid or the house when workers think the power is off, which is obviously very dangerous and could get you in a lot of trouble if it went wrong.
Engineer here, so I'm aware of the fundamentals of "how not to kill yourself with electricity". Anything tying into the grid I'm definitely calling a professional for.
But no, I'm not in a financial or property situation to install a grid-connected system, so I was imagining a "balcony solar" kit that'd just charge a small battery bank I could run some lights, a fan, or some similar low-load devices off of. I don't know if such a thing exists (or if it's a smart idea), but I'd like to look into it and find out.
Yeah for sure. You could get an all in one inverter battery bank, but I prefer piecemeal systems because of repairability/replacing parts/upgrading parts.
Basically you'd get a battery, when I was shopping around I found eg4 or gyll batteries to be the cheapest. Small Texas company. That could have changed. Some ppl make their own or use them from a car, but soldering plus making a management system seemed like more than I wanted to deal with.
You need a way to charge the battery (panels etc) and also a way to get the power into the battery safely and efficiently (charge controller).
And then you need a way to get energy out of the battery to your apploances. You can get DC appliances that match your battery voltage or get an inverter.
For all of those parts you need to run some simple calculations for efficiency and compatibility and use case (how big of a system etc), as well as some fuses and possibly lightning arrestors and grounding.
Totally doable and a good bit of fun
Best ask in a more specialized forum. Personally I rent so I have to take what I'm given.
You wish, if we keep going towards everything has a battery power demand is only going to go up
Sure, but energy efficiency is always improving, distribution and storage are always improving. And the full electrification of transport (which is what you seem to be alluding to) is not going to happen overnight.