How do I avoid enshitification of my keyboard and mouse

The way forward is to stop looking at those as "features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased" and consider them as "unlockables" where you have to pay again by handing over your personal info. Then stop buying their stuff, because it's absurd to have to pay twice.

I prefer my keyboards and mice as dumb as possible. Preferably with cables, so I never have to worry about charging them.

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but switch to Linux and use Piper, a free & open source replacement for the Logitech software, that was created because they don't offer an official version for Linux

I hate this so much.
My hp printer doesn't do shit, if I'm not online and logged in to my hp account. For what if not for collecting datathey have no business collecting.

No advice, just shared frustration.

I use a Logitech mouse and do not have the problems you are talking about.

Buy open hardware with open source firmware.

I'm typing this from a Corne-ish Zen and you can see my firmware (ZMK) with my keymap at https://github.com/Utopiah/zmk-config-zen-2/blob/main/config/corneish_zen.keymap#L27

Nobody can touch this but me. No update can break it. Yet, it's more feature rich than most keyboards.

There are equivalents for most peripherals. It's not cheap, usually even MORE expensive than already pricey ones like Logitech (I have an MX Vertical, still) but IMHO it's worth it. It's good right now, pragmatically speaking, but also morally speaking.

I advise against swimming upstream, namely NOT buying hardware that have such enshitification practices because if they don't do it today, they might tomorrow when there is more pressure from shareholders. Also by buying alternatives you are economically supporting people whom you believe are providing better solutions for yourself and others.

PS: a gateway to such projects is https://crowdsupply.com which is a kind of KickStarter. I bought a dozen things there, all delivered and working.

It's unfortunate, really, but there's only 1 good answer: vote with your wallet.

Research before buying and be thorough. There are companies that don't do this yet and you could build your own peripherals, there's some nice DIY kits out there.

Just don't buy this crap. IMO the only way this'll change is if it hurts them where they feel it.

What you want is to go along with the business line of logitechs products and scrap the rest. There is an offline version of Logi Options+ "for air gapped machines" available. https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-hk/articles/10991109278871-Logitech-Options-Offline-Installer You may use it in a virtual machine aswell.

Disclaimer: I'm a keyboard snob. I can't think of a single good keyboard that even has software.

I actually use Logitech for all my mice and trackballs, but I also haven't installed Logitech's junky software in a long time. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing.

Just build your own keyboard. That's what I did (and it turned out fantastic) 🤷

Mice are much easier to deal with since there's 500 million of them to choose from. Just pick a generic, no-name brand that doesn't need drivers and you're all set.

Aside: Building a keyboard isn't rocket science. It's just a bit tedious (buy a kit). Unless you invent your own 3D printable keyboard switch and stabilizers from scratch then design an analog circuit board to work with them (also from scratch). Then it's a bit more like rocket science 🤣

What’s the mouse and keyboard? So I can stay away

Personally I would just avoid Logitech. I have noticed their stuff mysteriously breaks every 2-3 years and I have to replace it. It's like planned obsolescence with them.

It can be frustrating finding a good alternative brand. I'm always on the hunt for one. I've had a Das Keyboard for a long time now, and it's fantastic. My wireless mouse is a Tecknet. It's not great but it's pretty good. If there's a Best Buy close to you it may be worth your time to go there and test drive some peripherals.

Just don't use the software lol. If it requires software to function, return it.

"The company to which I've always given my money because I trusted them to make good products has started taking advantage of my trust and is producing shitty products. How do I avoid this?"

Stop buying their products the moment they stop making good ones.

I feel your frustration, but I think you already knew the answer. Any workaround or jailbreak or open source firmware update would just be avoiding the problem, not fixing it. Stop buying Logitech products.

I think the mice and keyboard requiring "Chrome" is actually due to WebHID. WebHID is only supported in Chromium browsers. Now here's the fun part, this thread has VIA mentioned a couple times and even though VIA/QMK/ZMK are FOSS, the usevia.app website requires a, you guessed it, WebHID capable browser.

That said, don't use Logitech keyboards. Sell it to a sucker on local and buy any of the above compatible keyboards instead. Drop CSTM, Luminkey, Keychron, Akko, QK NEO, CK Bakaneko, there's probably couple more that are affordable and quality. Just don't fall for GMMK, Ducky and other pseudo-gaming crap. Also visit !mechanicalkeyboards@lemmy.ml and ask questions.

Not sure about your trackball problem.

Most of these systems have FOSS Linux equivalents. Sooooo

Simple answer is stop buying products that require OEM software to function or an app.

Keyboards with QMK/VIA support are open and configurable on nearly any OS and for nearly any OS.

Some mice are even QMK/VIA enabled.

Mice are harder so checking for openrgb support is a good idea as well as mice that can be configured and operated without software.

Woah, can you elaborate on this please? I haven't heard of this, and we use a lot of these devices at work. Which devices are affected? What's the software/chrome thing?

Independent of Logitech and other HID makers turning to shit, I've been eying some open source / DIY mice (like the Ploopy) for a while. Seems like a fun project that also helps me keep control of my own systems. And it'd give me something to tinker with.

This was posted on Lemmy a month or so back so i'm betting these are baby steps in that direction.

Find a mouse and keyboard you like and buy 5-10 of them. Put them in heavy duty ziploc bags with a few dessicant packets and store them in your freezer.

Jawbone headsets used to be like that. When they were still in business. They made good headsets, but introduced this feature as well to change certain settings.

Apparently that wasn't taught in business schools.

Use Keychron

I've switched to the cheapest generic mice purchased online that have no extra features and function like a state of the art wireless mouse did 15 years ago.

I still don't have a smart TV, I just buy the largest flat screen monitors I can find.

any smart device outside of a smartphone is so much more frustration than it's worth.

You could get keychron keyboard or something similar that supports open source key mapping/lighting (or just leave it as is when you get it)

I'm going to assume you need to use Chrome to set up the dongle because Firefox still doesn't support Bluetooth web APIs.

Logitech G devices with the Lightspeed dongle don't require setup (they're all uniquely paired from the factory) and will work without the G Hub software. The software itself, if you do want it, works offline without an account.

This is assuming you don't want to move away from Logitech entirely of course.

Keyboard wise? At this point, prices have dropped enough that there is no real reason to go to one of the major manufacturers for anything that isn't disposable. And basically "all" of the smaller batch mechanical keyboards are dependent on QMK or VIA to some degree which means you can customize them on any machine that can run chrome.

For the logitech price point/build quality? Unless you know why you don't want one, you can't go wrong with a Keychron (https://www.keychron.com/). The price and build quality isn't "the best" but it is very much on par with the logitechs and razers of the world and they are perfect for someone who just wants "a keyboard that works" or someone who wants to learn what they ACTUALLY want out of a keyboard.

Mouse wise? There are an increasing number of "third parties" but... they basically all suck unless you are going to go crazy and mod them. And while I think the firmware matters less in these cases, there are an increasing number of qmk/via mice but... they mostly feel "cheap" or like they are just proving the viability. I have a friend with a ploopy but even he doesn't really recommend it. So... you are still more or less suck with logitech and razer and the like for that. But hopefully as those companies lock their hardware down more it will lead to something in between "here is a cheap no name ergonomic mouse" and "here is a five hundred dollar mouse".

When did you buy the M570? I bought mine 6 years ago and it doesn't require software, if yours is recent then that's a new thing

dont buy crappy products. Some companies are simply too malicious and should be avoided. Convince others to do the same and tell others and it might even have some impact.

I know this might not be the most convenient solution, but learning to resolder mouse switches means you can just replace the faulty components (and maybe the sliders too) and just keep using the hardware that works for you. As long as you don't have a mouse with that awful rubber that de-vulcanizes after about 3 years, and don't mind the visual wear from your hand on the shell over time, you'll easily 10x the life of most products manufactured with planned obsolescence. Logitech almost always cheaps out on the switches for their gaming mice, unfortunately. After replacing the switches on my g pro wireless when they started double-clicking after 2 years (almost exactly), it's been smooth sailing ever since.

ifixit almost always has comprehensive teardown and rebuild instructions for popular peripherals. Bonus points is that whenever you take apart something to do a repair, you can clean out all the hard to reach places that collect random dust and debris. Can be kind of gross but is also pretty satisfying. Additional bonus points for being more sustainable with your consumer habits and minimizing e-waste in landfills!

If you've got a mechanical keyboard, you can do the same but it's generally a lot more tedious since most have the switches soldered on, and LEDs double the amount of joints you have to deal with. I recently did just the WASD and a few other high-traffic keys on my board after one one of them failed, and it was a several hour process

Currently still using the G502 Hero, and all it's customization is on-board, edited using a portable .exe. I'm using some Rosewill mechanical keyboard which I believe has all its customization tied to inputs while holding the FN key.

Fuck, I hate always-online apps just to use the God damn peripherials I've paid for. I go far out of my way to avoid them.

I use hyperx alloy core keyboard as I don't actually need programmable keys or an LCD. RGB and media keys are as far as I go.

I assume you're talking about the Unifying feature.

I've got no direct experience, but there are a few people who say that despite Firefox not being listed as supported, it works fine.

https://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=14961275

As for the spying, I can see how that could be a concern, but I don't think it's too likely.

For convenience, I'm guessing they're using a web interface to the settings in the same way that your router does. They've made a Chrome plugin, so that's probably the route they want you to take because they know it works.

Logitech is a global brand, an they'd get into a lot of trouble in a lot of countries if they were gathering keypress data etc.

I can't remember how to do it offhand, but you should be able to save the settings to the hardware itself, then disable Logitech from opening. I changed settings not too long ago (2ish months) and this worked.

Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased.

What are you talking about? Which keyboard, which mouse, which features, and which “internet accounts” are they requiring?

Also, Logitech still distributes the older software and it still works for the mice that it used to work with. My MX Vertical works with Logitech Options or the new Logi Options+ software, for example.

Did you try using that software with your new peripherals?

You can find the list by device at https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024361233--Software assuming this isn’t from their gaming line or something. In that case, go here instead: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001764393-Gaming

Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.

I highly doubt that the mouse and keyboard cannot be used without Chrome.

Due to security concerns, Firefox did not implement the WebSerial API that’s most likely used to configure your mouse locally. Chrome did. It’s therefore completely reasonable that you would not be able to configure your mouse from Firefox.

That API is also supported by Edge and probably by most Chromium-based browsers, like Brave, the “Ungoogled Chromium,” etc.. If you have one installed and it doesn’t work, you can probably change your user agent to trick it into thinking you're running Chrome as a workaround. Most likely they only tested with Chrome and therefore only say they support Chrome, but don’t actually use any Chrome-exclusive functionality.

This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.

That’s a bit of a leap.

If you use Firefox for browsing and only use this Chrome to run this tool to configure your keyboard and mouse, then even with cross-site cookies and so on unblocked, none of that will be visible from the other browser. So this makes you more isolated, not less. Having it in a browser app instead of a desktop app gives you more protection, not less.

If a company can provide a browser app to do everything a desktop app could, then they can speed up development without having to use something like Electron to distribute their app. And there’s even less friction than Electron because their don’t have to check for updates / require users to install the latest version manually, because they can just always serve the most recent one from the site. As a user, you can probably install the tool locally if you want (it’s likely a PWA) but you don’t have to, meaning you get less software installed on (or worse, constantly running in the background) on your machine.

Build your own or buy from other mech keeb enthusiasts. Theres also probably some 60-80 dollar ones that use QMK, and using QMK is a pretty good sign the keyboard is open to you and you own it. Mice, idk I definitely have an enshittified mouse (proprietary app to setup). It's a gravistar. 130 for a magnesium mouse was too good to pass up.

Some of the older apps will still work if you can track them down. Most of the features will work with no Logitech software at all (and something like AHK can help). The custom drivers themselves will probably work without the app or at least without logging in. My old M560 still uses SetPoint in Windows, and it seems less oppressive than the newer LogiOptions or whatever.

Finally, join us! There's a whole world of fully programmable open-source-firmware custom keyboards, and mice are coming along, too, especially trackballs.

Could you remap the keys with AHK?

I've done a lot of de-enshitification in my digital life over the past year, most recently by de-google my phone. I'm going to be honest: It's not easy, nor convenient, and a lot of the time not cheap. You really have to go out of your way to get what you want, sacrificing at least something a long the way (features, usability, etc). It takes quite a bit of desire and determination to move away from the modern garbage that these companies shove your way, and I'm honestly not sure if it's worth it for the average person because of the massive amount of effort that it takes.

All of the above is to say that if you really want to avoid enshitification you're gonna have to make changes, such as buying a different set of peripherals for your pc, and that it's not gonna be easy. The real question is: is all of that work worth it for you?

For me it 100% has been.

Bought a new keyboard a few weeks ago. Had function keys set to alternative hot keys. Only way Logitech offered to change that was to download their "options+" software. Don't remember for sure, but the final download size was MASSIVE. The software included AI tools, but had bare minimal settings options. It added support for additional gestures on the keyboard's track pad, but made the track pad jittery. Made the fn key switch, then uninstalled the software. The setting change didn't stick once the utility was gone.

Returned the keyboard. So excited for the day when my shoelaces and sunglasses require an Internet connection.

I recently bought a nice MX series Logitech KB and a mouse that will pair with 3 devices, also Logitech. After seeing how terrible the software is, failing so hard as to temporarily disable the keyboard, repeatedly, I returned both.

My best advice is to either try to use them entirely without the software and all its customizations or sell your hardware, buying something better.

I'm sorry friend.

https://www.newegg.com/kensington-k72436am-usb-wired/p/N82E16823155065

Haven't looked at their newer stuff so it's possible they are enshittifying too, but Das Keyboard has been a reliable low-frills brand for me for years (get one with blank keys if you really want to hone your touch typing skills!)

Don't have any suggestions on mice. I'm using a Razer

I've fallen into this trap too a year ago or so. try if the Logitech Onboard Memory Manager is useful for any of your devices, it's a totally offline program. you can get it from the page below, but if it's been taken down check the archive.org, I think I have made an archive of the exe too

https://support.logi.com/hc/de/articles/6449584392215-Onboard-Memory-Manager

Logitech devices do not need such drivers under Linux...

I still have a small fleet of M570 trackballs in service, I keep having to swap out the switches but what else is my soldering iron doing, amirite? My keyboard is from Cooler Master, a Masterkeys Pro M White LEDs, and they never made bloatware for it. The lights are configurable from the keyboard itself. That's the kind of thing I look for.

I bought a logitech G502 mouse on a whim because my Razer Naga died (still pissed about it) and I needed a replacement. I hate it. I hate the software you have to use to get the fucking buttons to work, and I wish another company made a mouse like the Razer Naga. (I'm not buying another fucking razer product if I can help it, wasn't the first razer product to just stop working on me)

I use the 8BitDuo NES keyboard. It's great, albeit not for everyone.