Yanno what? Good for them! Not only for swiftly defederating at their discretion (which I support, full stop) but also this open dialogue that is happening.
People forget that defederating can be reversed, but it requires communication and cooperation for that to be an option.
This is a good take. I find it strange that beehaw would be cast as the villains in this situation when an open line of communication exists between the admins with the tentative goal of refederating.
Exactly!!!!!
I would like to thank /u/thedude for having an open dialogue with other instances.
Edit: (how) can I link to a user? @TheDude /u/TheDude
This is the way.
Btw thanks guys
[@TheDude@sh.itjust.works](https://sh.itjust.works/u/TheDude)
I think you over complicated it?Let's test @TheDude@sh.itjust.worksHmm. Maybe it doesn't work on Lemmy.
Like an email with @ before
Great to hear that there is a dialog open between the admins. Hopefully it is all sorted swiftly. Federating with all of the large instances is important for the continued growth of the platform.
cross-posted from: https://beehaw.org/post/594843
hey folks, here's a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here's sh.itjust.works's side of this update)
we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy's moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we'll eventually be able to do this, although we don't have a timetable on when yet.
we're also now collaborating with him on how to move forward--and in the weeks and months to come we'll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we're also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.
we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[^1]--but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there's no roadmap at all there as of now. we're always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is "when mod tools are in a better state".
that's all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we'll announce them as needed.
[^1]: we're only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that's fine.
I find it a bit ironic how so many people are pointing out how "growing is important to federation" specifically in reference to this... but at the same time, beehaw are one of the few sites that are against growth (as can bee seen by their requiring to get approved in order to join their server... which IMO is no better or worse than tilde's invite requirement)... and, given the timing, it would seem that they are against hosting reddit refugees in particular.
Yes, you can claim it is for keeping beehaw's site stable or curating users or plenty of other more palatable reasons. But at the end of the day, you are still turning users away. I have a lot of respect for kbin not closing its doors to new users, despite the load it is placing on their infrastructure.
Personally, I wouldn't mind one bit if kbin/beehaw were defederated from each other (not advocating for it, just saying I wouldn't care whatsoever if it happened on its own)
they're not against growth, it's just not their priority and they don't want to achieve it at any cost.
Which, honestly, I respect. If you know you can't support growth then don't push for it. Huge props to Ernest for dealing appropriately with the growth of kbin.social but I also approve of Beehaw's approach - namely: we aren't ready for that kind of growth right now so we aren't going to let it happen.
I expect something similar will have to be put in place here at kbin as well sooner or later. Eventually we will run up against a limit of what Ernest can do being but a single man with but a single pair of hands.
You're welcome to have your own opinions. But I think actions speak louder than words
And so far, based on their actions, IMO they are being a bit elitist. They can prioritize whatever they want... But by doing so, it becomes clear that they are not interested in the users leaving reddit, so I will not pity them when those users end up elsewhere.
Then again, I am not in the "p.c. language" camp - as anyone who bothered to read my screen name can tell immediately - and am probably not in the demographic they're going for anyway.
You can be for growth and against unchecked growth. The two are not the same.
nevermind
If you are referring to this
I wouldn't mind one bit if kbin/beehaw were defederated from each other
then, unless you have some insider knowledge, I think you may be mistaken. kbin and beehaw are not defederated ... at least not yet.
federated = joined in an alliance, e.g. linked
defederated = not federated, e.g. blocked / censored / not linked
source: https://beehaw.org/instances
Linked Instances
...
- kbin.social
Why did Beehive decide to defederate?
Since lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works didn't have any restrictions on making accounts they were getting a lot of trolls coming from those 2 instances so they defederated from them until the moderation tools become more advanced.
They only have 4 admins and don't allow users to create communities. It's highly curated, but also can't handle the influx of users from other instances until they have better mod tools, or change their position.
From my understanding, with the slew of new users on lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, moderating comments and posts that were against Beehaw community rules (largely because of bigotry and harassment) became more or less impossible. While there has been an overall explosion in new accounts across the fediverse, almost all of their time was moderating users from those two instances. They were not able to find a compromise using the current mod tools, so went with the nuclear option while they figure out new solutions.
When I first read about the defederation I had a knee jerk angry response but after thinking about it I really feel like it makes sense for them. They want to have a heavily moderated space and it's hard to do that when you integrate with the other communities. It seems to me they have a level head and are approaching this carefully. I hope that they end out being in the minority but I can understand having a few relatively solitary groups with a focused goal.
My biggest concern with this, is that it may keep many people from joining us / leaving reddit, as they also will have a knee jerk reaction, but won't bother to look any further into it.
Good news. Im on lemmy.world but I'm sure it will work out. As there is no corporation the users and admins can collectively work on share and own the tools for moderations.
Exactly. The improved moderation tools will help everyone and there is no reason to keep it to one instance because of the non-profit nature of the fediverse (so far). Good stuff!
And they're open about it, rather than having it happen behind closed doors (or not at all), which is a good sign.
This alyaza character seems like a real gem. I'm imagining all the curious refugees checking the place out for the first time, seeing all of this censorship irony, and promptly going straight back to reddit.
and the paragraphs and paragraphs of intentional lowercase. at least, as an admin, they seem very engaged with the community.
@can I almost perfer being fediblocked with no chance at remediation over dealing with fart-sniffing admins who all act like they're from qoto
The transparency is refreshing.
"talk to us, let's set out a road map, we are the reasonable ones"
When someone said they were very "Delores Umbridge", they weren't wrong.
It's almost like we need to create some kind of... Constitution that everyone agrees on for these United States... I mean, instances. Ahem.
I see that in both the original post and now this update that the focus has been on improving tooling for Lemmy specifically. I'm worried that kbin isn't having the same focus on moderation tools. Anyone have some insight into kbin's roadmap?
Kbin is a newer project, the admin needs time to organize it, 2 weeks ago was just a hobby project, now it has +30k users.
I can say he is actively working on making it easier for admins and mods to regulate content.Well there's this roadmap but it's a month old and things have probably shifted given the past week.
I know it's on their list, not sure where it'll get prioritized. I shared a link to kbinMeta with beehaw.org's list of needed moderation functionality, which applies to kbin as well, but so far the only comment is "jesus christ, here we go again with all this blocking bullshit". 🤣
https://kbin.social/m/kbinMeta/t/37130/Beehaw-s-mod-tool-needs-Useful-for-KBin-as-well-Discuss
Oh no it's a shame that they will wall themselves off said no one ever.
interesting. I wonder what this entails for sh.itjust.works? I know y'all can be a lot.... harsher than those beehaw guys. I wonder if beehaw is expecting a culture/tone shift? or just indeed actual moderating?
